Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

While working today I was kicking around if Larson ran full WoO season with Silva how would they stack up vs.Schatz/Warner.I am a big Larson fan but still think Schatz would dominate for a couple years yet.Then we would see a 5 year period where it would be second coming of Steve and Sammy. We'll never get to find out because young talent goes for the money which hell I can't blame them.

I think Donny would have an advantage because he has seen all the tracks and has a book on them. Plus his team has been together so long they think like one. But Larson would give him a good run at times just on talent (his & Silvas). But I agree, it would developed into a new version of the Steve & Sammy show in time. And that would be the best thing to happen to the WoO in a long time!

It's bad enough Nasnap has screwed up their own racing, now they are messing up ours by taking the young talent away to chase the big $$$$$$$.

Yea, Larson's great quality is his versatility, while Schatz is a winged 410 specialist. Schatz would still beat him on WoO tour, but I think Kyle would wipe him out if they raced midgets, wingless, or (shudder) NAPCAR

Larson could never master qualifying, which is obviously a huge part of the WoO. If he could get that part down, he'd be at least the equal, if not better than schatz. 

Why couldn't he master qualifying?

Saldana had 17 quick times, Madsen 11, Schatz only 5

Guess who still dominated?

Rather than limiting the debate to Larson vs Schatz perhaps we could open it up to What place do you think Kyle Larson would finish if he were to do a full WoO season?

I'd probably pencil him in for 4th-5th

After watching Larson run his 2nd winged 410 race in 363 days. He would "Smoke" Donny Schatz......For a whole season with Silva. Donny and Stewart would battle for the Championship, Larson would have the most wins but would not stay off the wall enough to win it his first year. Would be Fantastic to watch tho!!!!! JMO....

There are not enough provisionals for Larson to make it thru Central PA 3 times.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Cmon dude, you're just asking to turn this thread into another flame war. Cant we just stay on topic for once?

I would actually like to see Rico run the full schedule. Don't think he would be able to dethrown the current master of winged sprint car racing, but possibly in his 2nd year fully on tour. Rico has A LOT less time in a race car than almost everyone on the WoO tour, yet is still a threat every single night he shows up. He has shown multiple times what kind of hard charger he is (example at Charlotte until breaking)

Real race cars don't have fenders...

interesting debate.

While I think Larson is indeed a great talent, I don't believe he'd be a threat to Schatz's dominance on the WoO tour and my reasoning is this:

Kyle just isn't consistent enough.  Is he spectacular and win a lot?  Yep, but what about those times he doesn't win, is he running 2nd, 3rd, 4th?  Nope, from what I've seen, when he didn't win in a sprintcar, he either wrecked or finished poorly. 

I think he'd be about a 5th-7th place (in the points) finisher unless he started to learn how to "get what the car gives you".

He's still learning this today in CUP.  When his car is right, he is a threat to win, when it isn't, he tends to overdrive it and get in the fence trying or finishes 15-20.  Once he learns that if he has a 10th place car that 10th place is good enough, he will never be a threat to win a Championship.

Having said that, I hope he learns it soon as there will be some more high-profile rides opening up over the next few years in CUP and until he full-fills his promise as the "next Jeff Gordon", he won't be getting those rides.  (Yes, Tony Stewart wanted him to replace him, but let's say instead of being called "a sure fire winner", he already had some wins under his belt, the $$ those bigger teams could offer would be more than it is today, and sponsors aligning themselves with those bigger teams like Hendrick, SHR, and Gibbs would be willing to shell out even more $$ to lure him to come to their teams.

If he was already winning and competing for championships, my guess is Toyota would have gotten Gibbs to lure him away from Ganassi already.

I bet Kyle could give Danny run for his money (at least as much as any other driver) in a winged sprinter.

I sure the same could not be said for Danny in a midget, now wing sprint car, and not in a stock car especially at a track like Sears Point.

Bottom Line, both are great drivers, it might be like comparing AJ and Mario in sprint cars?

I think he'd be about a 5th-7th place (in the points) finisher unless he started to learn how to "get what the car gives you".

Go look at some of the interviews with crew chiefs he has worked with in the past and currently. Almost unanimously they state he makes them look good cause he will use whatever setup they give and get the most out of it. He has never been really particular about perfect setups he just has an ability to find the way the car wants to drive for the setup he is given. There is alot of myth surrounding Larson but saying he isn't consistant in open wheel racing is far from the truth. 2011 saw him win 22 times in various cars and series. 2012 he had 30 wins out of 123 races ran. Thats roughly a 25% win percentage. There are few drivers past or present who can post those types of numbers.  

Cheers!

If they hide the water truck and make everyone tiptoe through Freddie's tulips, you are exactly right. 

Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

Yes, but he isn't content with what the car gives him, that is why he gets in the fence.

Are his wining % those years impressive? yep, no one ever said they weren't.  I saw a few of those wins and he was spectacular (kinda like how Tyler Walker was when he came on the scene).

But let's compare him to those big winning % years of Wolfie, Kinser and Schatz.  They won at the same rate (or higher %) as Kyle, but also ran CONSITENTLY when they didn't win.  How many WINGED SPRINT CAR WINS and Races did Kyle have in 2011 and 2012? (I personally don't know, I am asking, do you?)  Are his win % and Top 5/Top 10's anywhere close to Schatz (and were they against the same caliber of competition each time he hit the track?)

Wolfgang won HALF his starts in 1989 in the 8d car and probably finished top 5 in 90% or more of the races too.  But, he ran WoO, USA and unsanctioned races and didn't race for a Championship (but it was always against the best in the business and he excelled at the Big $$$ races too).  He won 54 times for Weikert in the Mid 80's out of about 110 or so starts (again, almost 50% winning percentage).

Kinser won 50+ on the Outlaw Tour in 87 I believe it was (including an amazing 24 out of 25 at the end of the season), including TONS of top 5's.  He won the Championship by miles and miles.

Schatz didn't record a single DNF the past 2 SEASONS.  Won 26 of 89 in 2014 (29% winning percentage), finished Top 5 63 times (70%) and Top 10 80 times (90%).  In 2015 he stats were even BETTER as he won 31 times in 75 races (41% winning percentage) and finished TOP 5 an amazing 60 times (80%) and Top 10  a remarkable 70 times (93%). 

Unless Kyle could finish consistently top 5 on those nights he didn't win, he would be nowhere NEAR a Championship in WoO racing.  Would he have some epic battles for wins?  Sure, but those nights where he hits the wall because he's overdriving the car would kill his championship chances.

Now, if you said that they were going to race various disciplines of cars for multiple owners (winged sprints, non-wing sprints, midgets, Silver Crown, Nationwide, Cup, Truck Series, ARCA, etc.) I'd give the nod the Larson in a heartbeat.  I think he's quicker to adapt.  But this thread was about him competing with Schatz in WoO races I thought.

You stated earlier that he would be 5-7th in points. Just who do you propose are the 4-6 drivers beside Schatz that would be better than him in consistancy and wins? Wins still account for points. I would have him in the top 3 in points without any problem at all.

Cheers!

While we're doing hypotheticals here's something to think about.  As stated already Kyle has shown an amazing ability to drive the car regardless of who wrenches it and how it's set up.  But here's the kicker, he's only 23 years old.  All these guys being mentioned, Schatz included, had been racing for several years to get to their level of success.  IF Kyle chose to spend the next 2-3 years running fulltime with WOO with the same capable crewchief like Paul Silva, how much better would he get?  Schatz is amazing right now for sure.  But it took him several years driving winged cars fulltime to get here.  Give Kyle a little time with only one car, one crewchief and and one goal and I have no doubt he'd be right there.  But unfortunately for us dirt fans we'll never know.  I don't blame him one bit for going where the millions are.  He'll certainly make lots more and have lots more opportunities where he is.  And he gives us someone to pull for on Sundays.  Here's hoping he and his team can step up this year and get some cup checkers.  You can bet he'll be doing it for all the dirt drivers and fans because that's where his heart really is.          

What did Donny's trophy room look like when he was 23?

wins account for 4 points more than a 2nd place finish.  1 DNF can wipe out 4 or 5 wins if someone else runs top 5 every night.

I'd say Shane Stewart, Daryn Pittman, Joey Saldana would finish 2-5 in points and the others battling for 5-7 would be Brad Sweet, Paul McMahan and David Gravel along with Kyle Larson (if he ever ran full-time WoO).

There is a lot to be said about EXPERIENCE for guys out on the road.  Shane Stewart was not an overnight success on the WoO tour, it took him years to get to the point where he is a top contender night in / night out.  Same goes for Pittman, Saldana, McMahan and now Gravel and Sweet too.  Silva is a great crew chief no doubt, but no matter how good you are, it's not a cakewalk out on the road away from your family, friends and you don't sleep in your own bed very often.