Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Should the dirt tracks  consider safer barriers? I dont know the science of putting in them but all racing should consider these? Obvisously at 500 a foot it is an expenise investment. WIth the lose of life at dirt tracks over pass years I think it would be something that would make sense. At least at the higher speed tracks(Knoxville/Eldora/ any 1/2mile) Im sure dirt track facilities have looked into this, but im surprised we havent seen a track come out and put them out.

That would be 2.5 Million.  I would say most dirt tracks would be happy to make a $100,000 of profit in a year. Where are they ging to get this 2.5 Million From?

I don't know if a sprint car weighs enough for the safer barrier to work properly.

I would have to side with you on this one. I think the safer barrier would act more like a spring shooting the car back in to traffice which would cause more harm than good. Not enough weight.

Fremont, Ohio run  saefty wall in the turns, work quite well

With sprint cars flipping up to 15 feet in air, how high of safety wall would you need. Most of the drivers hurt and killed by a wall, has hit the top of a cenment jersey barrier on top or at an angle with the cage. Safety barriers are made to be hit flat like with a late model or street stock type car, not one flipping over and over.

Fremont's safety walls are big styrofoam blocks.  But they do appear to work quite well limiting damage to car and driver from what I've seen there.  I would like to see them more places.  And tractor tires outlawed everywhere.

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If they start requiring SAFER barriers at dirt tracks it'll be the end of dirt tracks.    Why just 1/2 miles?    Someone commented that Kyle's impact speed was 90 MPH.   A sprint car can hit speeds higher than that on a 1/4 mile, especially if it's high banked.    Maybe they don't weigh near as much as a stock car, but the speed is obviously there and the impact could be there too.  

The styrofoam blocks work well. Saw them save a couple drivers last year at Chico last year. May be the cheapest way to go also.

    Styfoam blocks at Chico?   We have been regulars in the Super Stocks there for several years and have never seen them.  What are we missing?

I remember listening to nascar radio a few years back when the mud summer classic was just starting and there was talk of why won't Eldora be required to have them blah blah. Long story short from what I can recall of the conversation is that there just enough traction and stopping resistance to make them effective on a dirt track even with 3400 lbs trucks.

As for Kyle only going 90 mph, I am not so sure about that. I don't know how the tv folks gather the speed of the car IE GPS or engine revolutions or what but it sure looked to me like he was going way faster than 90 mph when he his that wall.

Either way that was a hell of a hit regardless of the speed.  I'm not a fan of his, but I wish the kid and his wife the best of wishes because it's gonna be months before he can even think about getting back in a racecar.  I'm sure Tony will have plenty of pointers. 

Everyone is spot on.  No way to pencil this out financially.  Could never pay for this with the money they are dealing with.   Not the same effectiveness for sprint cars.  All arguments good. 

As for NASCAR not having them yet?  For once, I agree with annoying ass Larry McReynolds--there is absolutely no excuse for this not to be done by now in NASCAR.  Some of these drivers alone make double digit millions.  The sport has enough dollars in it to get it done and it should be required everywhere. 

With that being said, if dirt tracks want to slowly put in some safer barriers in trouble areas of their track, that would not be a bad PR move and may even save a life.  But to make it mandatory, would cause a lot of tracks to go out of business.

JMO

Turn four in front of the bleachers. Saw a non wing hit them head on right in front of us. I believe there are some on the backstretch as well.

My opinion is Safer Barriers in Dirt Track Racing would cost 3X as much as they do for NASCAR (main reason being the walls have to be way taller, NASCAR's Safer Barriers are 3-1/2 to 4 feet tall maximum.

Additionally, IMO, the wall at a place like Knoxville already is safer than a concrete wall would be (I've seen cars hit the fence and the ENTIRE fence shakes (absorbing the energy of the crash) and moves (which is essentially what a SAFER barrier does, it absorbs (some of) the energy of the crash.

Do I think any concrete walls should be replaced by something else?  Yes, but a majority of the crashes where a driver was hurt on a concrete wall in dirt track racing has more to do with the "catch fence" being too far back from the concrete wall allowing the car to land on top of the concrete (or the catchfence is non-existent).

There is no be-all end-all answer for safety IMO.  The main thing is continueing to move forward with safety enhancements (whether they be seats, belts, fences, fire safety, etc., etc., etc.).

The financial feasability of SAFER walls in dirt track racing is questionable.  The real problem is the overall design of barrier systems at many tracks.  

- Concrete is deadly.  A "cage first" impact is horrible.  Cages collapse, the concrete doesn't absorb any of the impact.

- The most dangerous aspect of concrete walls is the top of the concrete wall.  A car flipping and coming down on the top of a concrete wall is very dangerous.  Concrete walls are going to exist, I get it.  However, when the top of the concrete wall cannot be protected by a fence or even earth, a padding system could be constructed of foam/tire/rubber to act as a soft cap for the top of the wall.  

-  Guardrail walls supported by wood provided some ability to absorb a high-speed impact.  That's a better option than concrete.

- I beams:  After the Hutton crash at Oskaloosa, you'd think unprotected steel I-beams would not exist.  But they are quite prevelant.  There are steel I-beams just 2 feet from the racing surface at Williams Grove (the bridge supports on the back stretch).  

- Sharp angled walls.  Lucas Wolfe slammed into a sharp angled wall on the inside of turn 1 at Williams Grove a few years ago.  Some space may have to be sacrificed, but track layouts and barriers should be designed to minimize the opportunity for a sharp impact.  

- Tractor tires:  There is no need for tractor tires to be a part of racetrack design.  Lots of tracks operate without tractor tires.  See what they are doing an emulate it.  DOT barrels, foam, water, etc. are an good option for protecting the end of a wall.  As far as marking the racing surface, berms seem to do a good job.  Foam blocks are a decent option also.          Personal experience:  I was racing at Stuart Speedway in Iowa.  A bunch of cars started crashing in front of me in turn 2.  My only option was to turn to the infield to avoid the crash.  I smashed into a tractor tire and tore up my car.  I would've preferred driving up onto a berm.  I did the right thing and got punished for it.  

Ben T

"If you're gonna run the bottom, you might as well get 
a real job."

They did a study at Eldora for Safer Barriers, for the truck race and they decided it would not work.  I could be mistaken but I think they took into account all the other racing at Eldora and not just the trucks.

I personally don't think they would work well for sprint cars and would work well for Late Models.  I think a sprint car could get into the barrier and tear it, this would then bring more shrapnel into the track and cars.

DA

There is a very clean and cost effective way to soften up concrete walls around short tracks. Place plastic 55 gallon barrels against the concrete, tethered with a cable. They are pretty thick plastic, and hold enough air volume that they would decelerate an impact substantially before the sudden stop happenes. I don't remember which ones, but there has been at least 2 tracks that have done this in the last 10 years or so and the drivers that have hit them have loved it.

This still doesn't do anything to help a car that is 15 feet in the air flipping....but what actually could?

Loose is when you hit the wall with the rear of the
car, tight is when you hit the wall with the front of
the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and
torque is how far you move the wall.

+1

A similar system could be devised for the top of concrete walls.  Soften the blow when a car lands on top of a concrete wall.

"If you're gonna run the bottom, you might as well get 
a real job."

Where I've seen this done they actually filled the barrels with water, gives them weight so they stay in place as well as makes them more sturdy than an empty barrel. Seems to work pretty good, definately a softer hit than hitting a concrete or anchered wall.

http://gph.is/XMLGff

SAFER Barriers won't be coming to sprint car racing anytime soon. 15 foot tall SAFER barrier? That's just dumb.

Need to focus on stronger catch fences. A 6 ft tall guardrail and another 12 feet of catchfence on top seems the most reasonable. Most (not all) injuries occur with car to car contact or contact with concrete.

NASCAR has catch fences that can stop a 3400 lb stock car going 160 mph so surely it could stop a sprint car.

-Austin Rankin