Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

What's the reasoning behind there not being a 0 or 2 in the inversion draw?  Why penalize the quick qualifier by not giving him a shot at starting on the front row of the dash?  I understand the purpose of drawing an inversion, but it seems odd that they don't give everyone an equal chance to get lucky. 

I wish they would go back and draw the pills 1-8 individually. 

maybe because a zero or a 2 is not an inversion. and i believe the purpose of an invert is to not start the fast timer in the front row.

to indy and beyond!!

Still seems goofy.  So your ideal goal is to be the 4th, 5th or 6th fastest guy?  Put a 0 and 2 in the draw and there is still an 80% chance the fast timer isn't on the pole, but you aren't guaranteeing that he has to pass at least 3 cars to start up front.  Has to be frustrating for a guy like McMahan who has quick timed so often and once that happens, he knows he is out of contention for a front row dash starting spot immediately. 

if you are running for points you ideal goal is to be fast time and get the most qualifying points. i don't think they give dash point, but i could be wrong.

the idea of an invert is not to put the fast car on the front row. people like to see a little racing. why do some people think that in dirt racing the fast cars are supposed to start at the front?

then we have others complain that the racing is boring with the fast cars starting up front.

to indy and beyond!!

The idea of an invert goes back to an era when there was asignificant difference between the fastest guy and the 6th or 10th fastest. Those days are long gone. I agree, should at least have a 0 pill in there.

actually the idea of starting the fast cars in the back goes back to an era when they had the ability to more often race to the front.

the idea of an invert was hatched after the fast cars were started up front so much it made the races worthless. the invert was added to make the races more competative for the drivers and exciting for the fans.

in the whole scheme of things the invert is relatively new.

to indy and beyond!!

The fans would want to see a full field inversion or Schatz starting the tail every night.  Obviously, that can't be done, so we can't dictate everything off of the wishes of fans.

I'm looking at it from a competitor's perspective and it seems unfair.  I'm sure a quick qualifier would glady trade his bonus points for a pole position in the dash and likely the feature. 

I'm all for passing and exciting races, but I'm not sure those inverts amongst a very closely grouped bunch are actually promoting that. 

you seem to forget that racing is an entertaiment product that needs to satisfy the fans to stay alive.

as far as a competitors point of view, just what competitors are you trying to be fair to? starting the fast guy up front is unfair to more people than starting him a few spaces back.

and why not a full inversion? that is the way it was done at most sprint races until the woo decided they needed their guys to start up front all the time.

they start the trophy cup with the fast cars in the back, because that is what the fans want, and by the end of the race the fast cars are up front, and it is a heck of a show.

to indy and beyond!!

And the final payout is decided by an accumulation of points, not solely finishing position.  That's a different story.  Anyway, we're getting off topic. 

Time trialing isn't necessarily even an indicator of who the fastest car is.  A lot of it can be pill draw dependent.  Not to mention, your fastest qualifier is likely not your fastest under actual race conditions.  Just curious as to how they came up with the method they utilize. 

but in order to get those points you have to both pass cars and finish as far forward as you can. so the cars with the most points have shown themselves to be the best under racing conditions.

 as far as how they came up with the method of the invert, like i said the idea of the fastest car starting up front and running away got old. the only way to stop the fastes car from starting up front, and not starting at the back was to use an invert. the question then was where do you invert the fastes car? they decided to do it by pill draw. having a zero or a 2 in the draw does nothing to provide an invert.

to indy and beyond!!

It doesn't matter what pill is in there. If Schatz is 4th 6th or 8th quick the WoO puts only 4 6 or 8 on all the pingpong balls.

I understand what you are saying.  I just don't agree with the principle behind it.  If setting quick time is a direct indicator of who the most likely to win the race is, why doesn't Schatz have about 20 of them by now?  Obviously, time trialing and racing are two different skillsets. 

you don't have to agree. i was only trying to give a responce to your original question.

i never said the fast timer was the most likely to win the race, their are other variables.

but they are the fastest timer of the night and and have a reasonable chance to be able to run off from the rest of the field.

the reason they started inverting was to try to avoid that.

like i said, you asked a question and i gave you a responce. you may not like the whay things are done, but that doesn't negate the reason why it is.

it has been tried may ways and argued many ways. the fans don't like the "fast" car starting up front and the "fast" driver doesn't like to start in the back. so a compromise was devised.

to indy and beyond!!

the dash sux... if the format of the dash today was around in the 90s, hell Lasoski might have more WoO wins.... when did a dash ever postion you for the starting line up... dont like the idea... you qualify for a reason. dash used to be something that had the top 4 in qualifying squaring off against one another... We dont have match races anymore, those would be more entertaining then a dash!

get rid of the dash altogether IMO, it's a waste of laps and time (and with the perpensity for WoO to have rubber down track conditions 50% of the time, why run more laps on the track??) and having it gives the advantage to those that time 9-16 at most races (when there are 4 heats) and 7-12 at the others (3 heats).

I think they should go back to 8 car inverts in the heats (if 3 heats) and take 6 to the feature (invert 6 and take 5 if 4 heats) and give the teams an INVENTIVE to be fast in time trials (besides points (make it worth some $$$$).  Invert the feature 6 or 8 EVERY night so they feel like they still have a chance to win even if they go out and set quicktime every night.