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I've got about a 70-71 modified frame and it had the torsion rear end setup. Looking for info, instructions, and even pictures about this setup. I'm not that familiar with this setup and I would appriciate any help to get this modified back on the track in the future!

Thanks in advance!!

Bruce

Red Racer 9
37 Chevy Vintage Mod
Member: OVSCRA & RRVO

The solution is a lot easier than you think, but it is the many opinions you'll have to wade through to get a car that fits your driving style.

Economy, historical value, historical intent, driving style, and so many other things have to be considered.

My rule of thumb is- The higher the historical value, the more the car needs to be restored back to it's original state.

A car that has no-history, has more freedom , in my opinion , to use later equipment under old fiberglass /tin/aluminum etc. Without chopping the original frame or parts , as much as possible. You never know what you get your hands onto, an old race car can end up being a huge winner back in it's day, and a full resto might need to be in order.

Many think ALL old race cars need to be restored to the way they ran back in the old days they were built. But period correct parts are hard to come by in many cases, and they really need to go to museum peices that are being discovered quite a bit these days. As these cars are coming out of the woodworks, the prices go up dramatically, making it harder for a beginner to get interested enough to even bother to start.

Magnesium wheels ---10 years ago , they were much cheaper than they are today--and they shatter easily , which means they are better suited for display only.

old frames-----10-20 years ago they were given away or sold at scrap price, and in many cases, you had to get there before the scrap guy did. Amazing how many still go to scrap, in fine shape too.

spindles, knockoffs, hubs etc, are going up as well. Just afew years ago, those peices were being given away because there was no movement and they were too heavy for modern racing.

External coupler, slider quick changes are cheap right now because the sprint teams are all onto the internal coupler rearends. BUT a 40 year old , 2" Halibrand quickie is $300 and up. ENCLOSED 301, non-shifter Hali quick changes are much higher on e-bay , and those used to be at the bottom of the barrel in the race car world, after the live axles came out.

Over time, many of us have found that there are solutions to save a little money and have a decent allowable vintage race car, as long as it is way obvious you are making a sincere effort to build an old school type car. EVEN if you have to use later model stuff. THE RIGHT LOOK will get you into the KAR, RRVO, and any car show you want , just about, in this region. Places like the KNoxville Hall of Fame, not so easy.

If I were to do it again, with a clean history car-- I'd get a good used Winters quick change, splined axle to go with it. Then birdcages, and keep the inboard brake too. Then I'd center the rearend and look at the torsion arms I have-- will they fit? --You'll be surprised at how often you can change over to a later 29" torsion bar on the early 70's cars. There are places that can make custom bend torsion arms, in case you need one or two.

Good ackerman geometry helps more than most know. Ray Cate here has all of Luther Brewers notes on how to do it.

Old Torque tubes , big and small, are out there cheap.

Drivelines are easy to find when you know what will fit. One step at a time.

Good used steering boxes, I like the steel Profiles on my no-history cars.

A good used Ross steering box from a forklift is an excellant manual box to use. Cheaper and stronger than any Schroeder.

Front axles are easy to get too. Mostly what is needed is to know how to fit a cross spring onto one safely. It can't be rocket science.

Always keep good engineering and safety in mind, --yes we do on track, but we have to walk on monday morning ready to go to work, or play golf. But then overkill and absolute perfection will eat up years and one day there maybe too little time left to drive.

Start looking at the inner workings of the modern day sprint cars, old open wheel magazines, take afew chances on good equipment, ready to sell off what you don't want or need. With a little machine work, and a level head about prices, and an undeniable fire, you'll get there. Many will want to help , and there are a lot of good folks to network with to find out, especially here.

Push for the dream, and it will take you there, but build what you love, not what will fool you. You'll be looking at it everyday.

Brian, very good post! You're logic on how to and what to build is on track. Pre-planning is the key to having fun restoring an old car verses getting bogged down with what others may think you should be doing.

Thanks

A50-52 , 1 inch offset axle quick change will fit nicely. Be sure to check the ring and pinion. Many torsion arms will fit those on an 70's car.

Get the bird cages too if you can.

Torque tubes are usually longer in a sprinter than a 3 speed super, that way you can shorten it down to fit. But don't cut it until you have the transmission in place and the rearend mounted--this way you get the right measure instead finding you cut too much or not enough off. It's a headache bolting and unbolting the rearend over and over. While both are in place, GET A DRIVE SHAFT MEASUREMENT TOO. You'll need the 10-10 coupler in place on the rearend, and the yoke on the end of the transmission

37-54 Chevy truck 3 speeds are enclosed driveline setups, and I've found the newer aluminum torque tubes fit over, instead of inside, the old torque tube ball nice. If you get lucky and find a Nance adaptor for a 3 speed muncie, look for a '55 Chevy short tail transmission, the pitch of the gears usually fit those . I hope I'm right on that one

Hard to say what clutch setup to use since there are so many to choose from, but the IMCA modifed guys are saving a bunch of money on the late model GM setups, with hydraulic throwout bearing.

Powerglides are nice too.

Everybody tells me the Crowerglide is the way to go, but they be pricy.

Engines- Dan Carlson is having a blast with his $550 IMCA claimer small block chevy engine he got in DFW. Reliable ,and runs pretty good.

If it's a 6 banger you want, a Ford like the Tulsa guys ran will last longer.Yet the 230 ,stroker Chevies run good too.

I went way off into left field didn't I?

Here's a few

Thanks Brian, you've given me plenty to digest and to look for!! For those interested, this is the frame I've got to build on and a Vicki body in the shop if I decide to go that route..

Bruce

Red Racer 9
37 Chevy Vintage Mod
Member: OVSCRA & RRVO

Get this book off of ebay easy,

It'll tell you all you really need to know about setups, and you will learn pretty good from there,

Search under "Sprint Car Frame".

Torsion bars, I'd keep an eye out for any good used 1 1/8 ,950-1050 pound bars. They'll have the rate stamped on the ends. I'd suggest 29 inch long bars for an early 70's car since they are on ebay a lot.

Search under "sprint Car" on ebay, and be sure to look at the 'used' parts for a good deal. 'Wingmansgirl', 48sprint48,earthwaterfiremetal are all good people to deal with.

Look under "vintage sprint car ' as well. Halibrand too just for kicks, you never know.

Hosehead classified tends to have a good start for a guy looking for parts that fit too. Lots of sellouts there, and now and then a good used part that fits turns up.

This I think shows still the old wishbone setup, which is what many early 70's cars had. But it also has the later setup as well. Not much has changed since the 70's on rear setups since the wishbone setup went out of style.

Thanks again Brian, hope to see you and Dan at the RRVO event in May at SOS in Ardmore.

Bruce

Red Racer 9
37 Chevy Vintage Mod
Member: OVSCRA & RRVO

You'll want a 1/4" plate for a firewall/motorplate. I have seen 3/16ths used a lot though. There are people that can machine it easy, but if you're a poorboy likes me, a good drillpress,jigsaw, attention to detail, a little luck you can cut one out for yourself.

I'm very sure an early 70's Nance motorplate will fit in there easy or at least give you the very pattern you need. r get you close enough to make small changes.

If you use magnesium, go easy on the heat, the dust from cutting out the outside, flywheel opening, and drilling,can catch on fire if you get too hot after a lot of dust buildup.Yes, it's happened. Keep that clean and always check your measurements. Then recheck them.

I sure did like that frame, the bones are right for an old Nance 3 window body or a sedan style. But I got the Suchy 76 and I needed room.

May not be much to many, but it looked good to me. I know it will handle well enough too when it's finished. You can also put coilovers on the front pretty easy if you want to get around the springer type suspension. But then you can also extend the shock towers out and make it a 4 bar as well. But that ruins the looks of the car , many think.

Front hubs, spindles, knockoffs, pressure plates can be gotten from Winters in pretty short order, if you need to. Seems to me new Winter knockoffs are cheaper than original Halibrands are today.

Tires-

These days I'm looking at

sprint car fronts, and left rears--

Late model rears. ---Late Models seem to have the same height as the old short and wide tires from the 70's. Just need to compare and measure when I can. In the meantime, I'll probably use what I have.

Wheels- lots of choices there, but the Ansen 5 slot styles are going up in price these days. If you find any 15 inch wheels now, 5 or 6 slot, cheap? Get'em! There's a fit for each one somewhere. Many times they're still considered scrap in Oklahoma. They remachine well.

Marsh racing still makes 15 inch , steel 5 slot close to where you live by the way. But I hear the centers are not as thick as they used to be. Still, Marsh has a great rep.

Paul Martens makes a nice Weld copy to look at , and every bit as true.

There has been a good argument on using beadlocks too. When it comes to 'on-track', I won't side against those. I'm tempted to paint my beadlock wheels white or gold to help hide the newness they have in looks.

There's just so many things a guy can do, and stay nostalgic enough to fit in just about anywhere.

PS-- Last time I saw the Zink 1300 super from 1971, it had a slider/shifter rearend in it with Weld rear wheels from about 1980! That was in 2006 at the Oklahoma Historical Museum! Funny how no one has mentioned it.

Brian, we've been running some sprint tires on the front and late model on the rear on our full bodied Modifieds. When I finally went to late model tires, it made a big difference in my old coupe.

I've noticed that alot of the early sportman and supers ran wide 5 and at this time I'm leaning that way (I've got the parts already for this) and being a clean history car for the most part, it leaves it open on which way to go. Plans are to run a springer frontend with the torsion rearend.

You've given plenty of things to look for, it will be a treasure hunt!

I may go with a coupe style body, but I'm going to see how the Vicki looks as well.

I know you hated to part with the frame and I know you're like me, to many toys. Hopefully if things work out, I'll have it at an RRVO event in 2014!!

Bruce

Red Racer 9
37 Chevy Vintage Mod
Member: OVSCRA & RRVO

Speedway is offering the torsion arm kits again.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130863356017?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648

These can also be used for a pitman arm too. Same splines as a Lee/Profile steering box.

Tubing is 4130 I think.

Or if you want aluminum straight , splined blanks , these will bend pretty nice if you get the heat just right. I do not know how much is too much though. All that is needed is to drill/mill the right hole for a 5/8 fine thread sae, tap and put the rod end in. Most of these are angle milled though, sure there is a reason. Check and recheck.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/380598030962?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

They also make a nice use for a Pitman arm if needed.

Remember- If you use 1 1/8 bars, get a reamer and 1 1/8 bushings. Old supers, I think ran 1" bars, which are fine if that's what you want-- arms seem to be hard to come by though in that size.

Don't forget the torsion stops, I'd prefer steel.