Forum: Racing From The Past (go)
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For hours of reading CLICK HERE http://www.hoseheadforums.com/forum.cfm?ThreadID=21640 for Whatever Happened To? Part 1 The Original with 70,700 views.

Thought about this for a while and it is close to when Part I was started in 2008 , so figure try and see if Part II would create any interest???.

The "Original" is usually the best and difficult to top and not really trying to , but if this part keeps the conversation going somewhat with new stories, lessons,etc. then heck it'll be a good deal. So here we go.

1. RIVALRIES, Texas , Oklahoma, Kansas , the NCRA Series prolly some of the greatest ever in this area , Tulsa,Ok./Wichita,Ks./OKC Weekly Rivalries, Lawton,Okla./Wichita Falls,Tx. Weekly Rivalries were pretty good but those NCRA shows were classics , to bad it is just about non existent these days. Side Note of the RIVALRIES thing cause it was the King Race of the RIVALRIES in the area in my opinion,so I can remember when the biggest Nationals race to me was the Hutchinson Nationals in Kansas in July not the Knoxville Nationals in Iowa in Aug.

2. CAR OWNERS , Like Pat Suchy, Norman Gumm,Bill Beaman,Jack Walker,John Zink ,Wayne Dodson, Jim Kennedy,Danny King,Harold Hillenburg,Clinton Herring,Lloyd K.Stephens,Chet Wilson,Laverne Nance,Everatt Issac, all synonomous with their cars, you not only knew who drove the car back then but who owned it, sometimes the owners were in my eyes as big of a hero as well and now knowing what I know,hell their what keeps the deal going with time,effort and of course $Money$.

3.Still wish Series racing today would just hand out stickers of their series at all the tracks they race at and you attend like NCRA use to,I would put them on a body panel and keep it up in the garage on display for many many years. Sure Series don't do that today because of $$$$$$ costs to print stickers today.

4.Keep lookin for NON WING Racing Series in the area , doubtful of it happening but still a BIG Fan of it.

5. Trophy/Track Queens, Still see them at BIG races and at tracks in other states but around this area , well they are about non existent.

6. Individual knowledge and innovation use to drive this sport , now $$$ drives the sport and if you have enough $$$ you can buy all the knowledge and innovation you want.

7. Luckily the Human Element still exists today meaning you can have the best of everything , best motor , driver, crew chief and equipment but if u can't jell and work together success won't happen,(Prolly why teams don't last long these days).

8. Not many pure owner/driver teams out there today (like owners I mentioned earlier) that are not family owned and driven, guess no one just genuinely still gets a thrill out of watchin the car go fast without having some other reason like family driving the car.(Still like watchin my Sprinter circle the dirt)

9.Simplicity gone in dirt tracks concessions, use to be Hot Dogs,Hamburgers,Popcorn and Soda's was it on the menu, now it is that plus Energy Drinks , Bottled Water,Ice Tea,French Fries,Nachos,Burrito's , Pretzelsw/cheese, funnel cakes, Pancho Dogs,Chk. Strips Baskets, fish and chips, candy, ice cream , etc. , guess life now is all about variety.

10. Final thing, $$MONEY$$ is the common theme of the 9 things listed above from racing in the past to racing today, why the change for the better and worse is all money driven, like life is I guess, change happens , prolly don't want it to but it's gonna happen but at least got'em filed away in the memory bank of racing days gone by and that is a good thing.

J.D.

Great Idea JD, I didn't start going to the races until 1968. Some of my friends that started before me told me about he OKC/Tulsa rivalry. They said went the coupes/sedan era that it was viscous. They used to have 2 Tulsa cars block the OKC car and let another Tulsa car pass and I am sure that the OKC driver s did the same.

I am from Tulsa but helped on cars from Wichita so I can see it from both sides. In the modifieds at Tulsa Hershel Thompson had won the championships in 1973 and 1974. He had a pretty good rivalry with Don Engel but nothing like what happened in 1975 with Mike Peters. They thought that Mike and Normano would not drive down for all the races. Mike was in points lead by the second race and won both half's and the overall championship. There was a war of words, they said that they were just as good and Norman was just buying a championship because he could afford new tires and engines as needed. there was probably as much money in Don Engel's car as Mike's 71. Hershel's engine builder got into the rivalry. Norman ran the 240 Ford six cylinder and his engine builder was the only builder that could take it out to the 260 inch limit. They protested us and his builder was the tech inspector and Norman said that they had to get somebody else.They figured out the point system and found that you could get more points if you won the B feature, start in the back of the A and win it than you could get bye sweep of the heat trophy dash and A. He would start his heat and drop out. That was really taking a chance but it worked out for Hershel and I don't think he ever had a wreck in the B. We tried to get Norman to have his other 2 cars drop out of their heat and race in the B but Norman said he did not want to win that way. They won a record 10 features and we only won 8 but won the championship. Hershel and Mike ran each other very well and did not touch the whole season. By August Mike was the fastest modified in the region, he won several features running with the V-8s. The points were changed the next season so that you would not get as many for a B win and A win as you would for a sweep

Ray

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My Pops drove a wrecker and helped out with the wrecks at Lawton Speedway in mid 60's got to going with him , been hooked ever since, growing up was big fan of Shady McWhorter of Grapevine, Tx. , use to come up to Lawton regularly and do very well in the early/mid 70's , then became a fan of Bullet Bob Ewell of Dallas , Tx. and he came to Lawton and won regularly as well and even was fortunate enough to get to help him out with his car and what got me started in what now today consists of ownership of openwheeled cars. Continued to learn what it was all about with 100" Modifieds and finally got out of college and was able to purchase my first 100" Car in 87 and owned a couple of them including an 84 Nance till 1999 and the Sprint Frames took over and have had run them in the Champ Sprint class since it's existence.

The Tx./Okla. rivalry at Lawton Speedway created some great racing as well as heated tempers, in the mid 70's the A.J.Little/Eugene Hair rivlary was the best one, there were others at the track but none of them were to the level of that rivalry that I remember,both were fast and ran up front and wanted to win the Track Championship.

Here is another one of those I always wondered what if??. What if James McElreath of Dallas,Tx. in the #14 Bill King Brake-O Super Modified Car would have stayed around here and raced locally for a while longer, he was dominant when he showed up at Lawton and raced, he usually started at the back cause he did not come up that often but when he did it seemed like all others were gonna run for 2nd place.

But he was destined for some place called the Indy 500 in Indianapolis, Indiana, just to bad he was not able to make it that far.

J.D.

I really enjoyed the old days but there were a few bad times also. One weekend in august 1975 I should have just stayed home. I messed everything up that I could on Norman's race cars. We were very high because the previous week we had a 1,2,3 finish at Tulsa in the modifieds and went to Fayetteville AR the next day and Mike Peters won a 50 lap feature funning with the supers. The next Friday Norman took Mike's 71 to Glen Mayor's shop to have new headers made. I was putting them and broke the bolt off in the head, we were able to get it out pretty easy. Glen had the car in the back of his garage and I got the job of starting it up and backing it out. There was a 11.5 drag tire on the right front and did not have power steering and did not idle very well and it was about 105 degrees. I was young and strong but it wore me out backing and steering the car out to the trailer,the motor kept dying and I had to keep backing and pulling up to get out and was very mad by the time I got out to second street where the trailer was parked. I got behind the trailer and lined up to the ramps, this was the goose neck trailer with about 20 foot ramps and the 17 was parked on the front. I floored it and it spun the drag tires and started pulling to the left with the stager, well I got it on and stopped but Norman was mad and Glen was rolling in the street laughing. Then wee had to make it to Muskogee. I had to back both cars off the trailer and on the 17 which was at the front I did not hit the ramps straight and back off the last foot or 2. Norman was not in a very good mood and I could tell it made him mad and it only got worse. We had to tie the extra wheels and tires on the trailer and the rope came loose on the Turnpike on the way home, I don't think I tied the rope but that still did not help. The next day at Bill Humphries shop I was changing tires and broke the valve stem off. I should have gone home then. We went to the Tulsa track, unloaded all 3 cars and tried to make them race ready. Gene See was in the 117 and went out for his heat and came back in. The engine was missing real bad, the condenser was loose something that we had never scene. Gene went back out for the B feature and was running real fast down the front straight and you could see his left rear wheel wobbling, they through the yellow but he did not get stopped and went flying down the back straight and the wheel came off and he had a pretty good flip. I helped get the car on the trailer and went home. They stayed in Tulsa and came to see me, they said that the the steel wheel was broke and it was not my fault. They tried to make me fell better but I no what happened. I would go to car to car and put the race tires on, when I was putting that wheel on Karl Vanbeber came by and we started talking and to this day I do not know if I tightened the knockoff or not. The next week we went to Enid and everything was ok.

Ray

Had a few tough times as well at the track, both involving my Race Car Trailer getting nailed by my car and a comeptitors car.

In 1989 was running at Echo Ranch Raceway in Ada,Okla. wingless 100" Modifed V8's and had a guy named Terry Plymale running the car and 1st time to run it , he found out how a Ram Coupler Clutch works the hard way, coming in after hot laps, (never thought to show him, thought he knew) anyway he comes in off track and coming down towards trailer and you can see he is pulling all the way back on the clutch handle and clutch would not engage to come out of gear, cause the Ram Coupler you only pull half way back on the handle for the Clutch to work, all the way back and it tries to renengage the clutch and well he comes sailing in and can't stop and panics and instead of hitting the kill switch he runs right into the back of the trailer and of course between trailer and race car is a 5 Gal. jug of fuel I just pulled out of truck to put in for the heat race and it got smashed and fuel just went everywhere and really lucky it did not get on anything hot or we would of had really bad issues with fire, anyway car runs up the trailer and bent my left ramp all to hell ripped LF shock off and broke it and well he finally realized to hit the kill switch and it come to a stop halfway up on the trailer and I was kind of shocked and not sure what to do at first, to laugh or start cussin , it was something as we had people scattering like flies around my trailer , it was pretty funny thinking of it now but pretty embarrasing then and costly for a newby car owner. Terry thought he was fired as I had several come up to me and tell me your gonna let him drive , he can't even get into the pit area safely and I sure was thinkin the same thing but stuck with him a few more times till he decided to tell me that racing in Ada and living in OKC was just a bit to costly for him to come down and race, so we parted ways after that.

Second time is in 2006 had Big Dave Lambert running my car and we are at Brill Motor Speedway in Meeker, Okla. first year of exisitence and we just finish 4th place in A main and not sure about other car owners but this one when it is over and you get behind your car on the 4 Wheeler to push it back to your trailer , you kind of relax a bit and take a breath and think of what just happened in the race, we did pretty good finished top 5 and nothing tore up and I am all happy about the situation and well here comes a guy named Jeff Garnett flyin around us at about 40 MPH through the pit area and of course he is parked right by us and well he pulls ahead of us barrellin through the pit area and he realizes he has no brakes and well does he choose to hit his own trailer , heck no , he drives right up mine off the RR ramp and luckily ramp was down or he would of sheared it off,but hell that helped launch him up and over my right side fender and up into the tire rack which helped slow him down, smashed the hell out of my tailight , really did even resemble a tailight anymore and also bent the fender down on the trailer tire and bent the tire rack on the RR stand and he finally realized with car just lunging on the trailer to hit the kill switch and well had to have a wrecker come winch it off , of course he only bent the front bumper and nose wing and nose wing was fixable but cannot say that about my trailer, FIRST and ONLY TIME I went home with a Race Car Trailer more tore up than the Race Car, It was unbelieveable , Garnett been racing for 20+ yrs. and knows better than to come barreling in the pits with no brakes, let him have it when he got out of his car, had quite a crowd gathering cause they knew I was really pissed and the more I got to thinking if my wife had been sitting on the trailer or any crew guy would of been on there putting up tires or whatever and so it got a bit more upset and got physical, I try and be calm at the track but a few things like that make my calmness disaapear.

Had a few cars of mine do bad flips, numerous crashes just many to count with front ends etc. and blowed up motors but getting my trailer crashed into not once but twice by a race car at the track is as they say now a PRICELESS memory.LOL

J.D.

"9. Simplicity gone in dirt tracks concessions, use to be Hot Dogs, Hamburgers, Popcorn and Soda's was it on the menu, now it is that plus Energy Drinks, Bottled Water, Ice Tea, French Fries, Nachos, Burrito's, Pretzelsw/cheese, funnel cakes, Pancho Dogs, Chk. Strips Baskets, fish and chips, candy, ice cream , etc. , guess life now is all about variety. "

As I've said before my all time favorite track food was 81 Speedway and Jim's BBQ. The smell was fantastic. this is back in the 70's anyway and before BBQ was on every fast food row in towns like now. After Jim's it was just ham & cheese sandwiches with mustard. I'll bet I had 4 or 5 at the Hutchinson Nationals with a pepsi.

I'm thinking Tulsa had a Der Wienerschnitzel stand???? As I was looking for the proper spelling I see the last store in Oklahoma City is no longer. So there is none in Oklahoma anymore. Now I wonder if they bought Taste Freeze. They mention it on there site. That was a childhood memory.

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

I love race track food especially BBQ sandwiches. I really enjoyed going out to eat after the races. Here in Tulsa it was great to go to Shotgun Sam's Pizza after the races. I liked going out of town and on the way home we wold find a truck stop or restaurant that was open and usually had a good meal. Hilltop at Muskogee was great. driving from Tulsa to Wichita in the middle of the night it was the HOJOS on he Cimmarron turnpike. I still remember Gene See ordering peanut butter on his pancakes and Mike Peters eating salad with no dressing. The first time that my wife went out of town was to Dewey and we all stopped at restaurant in Owasso, she still remembers Jay Woodside getting gravy all over his beard.

Ray

I remember stopping and getting a HOJO TO GO beverage at Wellington,Ks. on I-35 on way up to 81 or Hutch NCRA's, I think it's an EZ-GO/McDonald's now or it was last time was up there this past April to 81.

Warren, The Der Weinerschnitzel's are gone in Okla. and the Tasty Freeze's are pretty much gone as well, I also remember stopping at those Stuckey's along the interstate when we'd go to Dallas to the Devil's Bowl.

We always stopped at Crystal's Pizza in South OKC when we would come up to OKC to the races. Always heard about racers going to Shotgun Sam's Pizza in Midwest City after the races but never went , we had to get on the road and get back home at a decent hour back then.

My favorite track food would have to be at Dallas and still is,those Burrito's and Nacho's at the place are really good and always have been since I can remember.

J.D.

Must be time for the Okla. State Fair, Rain has finally arrived in Okla. and it usually rains during the Fair , can only love the Fair for that reason and that reason only this year, strange weekend already as it will prolly be the first weekend since April that I have not been to a Sprint Car Race.

Time to find out how the other half lives this weekend and go take the wife to eat at a Restaurant.

J.D.

I have been racky my brain or what is left as to what HOJO is. It finally hit me. Howard Johnson's. The one on the Cimarron two weeks in a row gave me runny pancakes. This was back in the late 70's. after coming home from the races in Tulsa. Was the Wellington Service Plaza on I-35 and the Kansas Turnpike also a HOJO's? I don't remember that.

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

I remember a lot of the Tulsa racers and fans stopped on the north side of OKC. It was called Truckers Village and it was on the east side between Wilshire and Britton. Back then I believe there was ramp that went from I-35 NB right into the truck stop. It might have been like a old turnpike plaza design. I think he had a couple of them around OKC. The owner later ran for governor. He seen the light and got out of the truck stop business when the corporate truck stops started taking over. I can't remember his name. He was really a nice guy. Came around personally to check to make sure everything was alright. They really did have good food. I just thought of the owners name, it was Jerry Brown. One of the nicest friendliest person I remember meeting in life of trucking also.

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

wors't food experience i can remember was a gibble gas on the way home to wichita from tulsa. there were so many roaches in there, the counter at the register was crawling with them, probably waiting for a tip....or if ya wanted a to-go box... yes the bb-q at 81 was real good, often wish they still had some one to sell it. any how race track food for the most part was fairly good.

That Gibbles Gas stop was on the Cimarron and it had a Howard Johnson's restaurant where the old McDonalds was before they just built a new one a couple of years ago. That's where I go running pancakes two weeks in a row.

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

Here is one question maybe someone could answer me, did anyone you know of ever buy a ride in the 70's and let's keep it on the NCRA Super Modified Circuit and I mean offer up cash to jump in and drive a car, whether it was a guy who had a driver or ???.

Reason I bring this up is that with the upcoming Chili Bowl in several months, hearing lately about Midget rides that are available for the BIG event in Jan. 2012 and hear $7500 will get you an average ride and on up in the 10-15 G's to get a really good one ,of course I am sure there are ones with older chassis and motors for 5G's and under and I am sure some have crash deposits $$$ along with the buy the ride fee plus tires you use, it sure does seems like a lot of loot for no more than 2 nights of racing at most and it could be as little as a Heat race and non qualifier and then your embedded in the Alpahbet letters on Sat. afternoon for the $money$ you have spent, BIG Time Gamble but if your really,really,really,really lucky and got talent and can make something happen ,could mean a career boost and folks noticing you for the upcoming season. Guess that is BIG time racing these days, pay the BIG money for the BIG race and buy a Ride and hope ya get noticed and move on to more oppurtunities, all's I can say is what a gamble. No wonder they get 250+ Midgets for the deal,seems now everyone wants to race this deal and will pay good money to do so, it is a car owners dream of sorts!!!.

J.D.

Don Engle won the modified feature at 81 Speedway in #501. Frankie Lies had trouble with his #56 and borrowed the 501 to run in the NCRA Supermodified feature. I'm not sure where he finished but it was top 5. This was to keep him in the points hunt that year. I'm sure there was money changed hands. But was it buying a ride? This was probably 74 or 75?

Off subject but: I was also at a race in Sedalia, MO when Marty Robbins supposedly bought a ride for the main event. He was probably also singing at the fair that night.

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

j.d... i'll kick in 10.$$$ for your ride!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! too bad i don't have a tire deal for ya ha ha !!!!!!!!!

The NCRA yearbook says that happened in August of 1974. Frankie started 19th and finished 4th. Grady Wade won the race and only he and James McElreath finished the whole 50 laps

bushwacker I appreciate that , $10 is a start and I am on my way to landing a Chili Bowl ride , LOL, and heck a guy needs a tire deal for sure, tack on another $1,000 in tires if your gonna run up front and if your one of the LUCKY ones that just happens to make the A main on Sat. night finale, most of em bolt on new rubber all the way around the car for it, after all it is the Chili Bowl and I guess if you get that far , you spare no expense and a shot at winning it, so we up the tire bill to somewhere close to the $1500 range.

This race is kind of taking on what the pavement guys do and have done for a while now, like in Indy and Nascar guys, you bring a sponsor and or pay the owner to drive a car and hope you win it and also hope something comes out of it that will take you to another level.

It sure is a heck of a 5 days of racing in the middle of winter.

J.D.

I think other cars finished they just didn't finish on the lead lap. Grady and James ran off and hid. Frank was just one lap down wasn't he along with a few others. I think I would remember if only three cars finished the race. Of course there might have only been 20 supers there?? Out of 50 laps some maybe only ran 49-45 but finished? I think maybe that was the same weekend the Merrick ran his Liberal 5 state races. I don't think any of the western Kansas cars were at Wichita. It was a real scheduling conflict.

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

That is what I meant to say, Grady and James were the only ones to complete50 laps, Eugen hair was 3rd with Frankie 4th doing 49 laps. cars did 49 laps. There was a conflict with the date and only 19 cars started the race.

Ray