I am looking for photographers and video journalists to submit their work to Openwheel. If you are interested, send your work with a small caption and credit to [email protected]
Posted By: Hawker on January 21 2010 at 11:41:56 PM
I am looking for photographers and video journalists to submit their work to Openwheel. If you are interested, send your work with a small caption and credit to [email protected]
What's in it for them? I'm seeing a lot of photographers these days standing by the freeway entrance with cardboard signs that read "will work for credentials and/or cash for each photo used."
Posted By: StanM on January 22 2010 at 06:13:03 AM
What's in it for them? I'm seeing a lot of photographers these days standing by the freeway entrance with cardboard signs that read "will work for credentials and/or cash for each photo used."
C'mon, Stan, literally millions will see your photo and photo credit and the link to your photo web site. They'll then jump over there and buy hundreds of copies of your fabulous pictures.....
OK, sarcasm off now.
While I don't know if Hawker pays for your photos, it seems to me that all you'll be doing is building traffic on HIS site......
Posted By: sprinter25 on January 22 2010 at 06:49:16 AM
C'mon, Stan, literally millions will see your photo and photo credit and the link to your photo web site. They'll then jump over there and buy hundreds of copies of your fabulous pictures.....
OK, sarcasm off now.
While I don't know if Hawker pays for your photos, it seems to me that all you'll be doing is building traffic on HIS site......
Do you honestly think that any of the racing websites pay for a 450 x 350 photo?
Posted By: Hawker on January 22 2010 at 10:12:57 AM
Do you honestly think that any of the racing websites pay for a 450 x 350 photo?
No, but they should....
After all, the photog has an investment in time, equipment(probably several grand $$), and probably a pit pass & travel expenses. The issue that I have with the web is that most think that all of the content on the web is free.
I'm sure that you pay to keep the domain name registered - as well as commit the time and computer resources as necessary. And that's not free, either.
And it's not about the resolution of any photo, IMO. It's about the time, effort, and content....and that ought to be worth SOMETHING! Using your example, the bits and bytes that make up your site are just as worthless as a photo....but you use photos to generate traffic on your site, and then use the traffic to validate the charges to your advertisers....if you have any.....
Posted By: sprinter25 on January 22 2010 at 10:29:31 AM
No, but they should....
After all, the photog has an investment in time, equipment(probably several grand $$), and probably a pit pass & travel expenses. The issue that I have with the web is that most think that all of the content on the web is free.
I'm sure that you pay to keep the domain name registered - as well as commit the time and computer resources as necessary. And that's not free, either.
And it's not about the resolution of any photo, IMO. It's about the time, effort, and content....and that ought to be worth SOMETHING! Using your example, the bits and bytes that make up your site are just as worthless as a photo....but you use photos to generate traffic on your site, and then use the traffic to validate the charges to your advertisers....if you have any.....
Believe me, there are only two sprint car websites in USA making a profit. Openwheel isn't one of them.
Using your analogy, websites should then be charging the series, drivers and tracks to post their PR's...............
This message was edited on
January 22, 2010 at
03:33:27 PM by Michael_Hill_Photographics
Ooooooh! A great chance to stop lurking and start throwing some pennies!
So....very few sprint car websites are making money. Seems to be the same business model on each. Post a website with horrible graphics...expect to charge banner ads to sponsors...post drivel from EVERYWHERE possible...expect people to give you content for FREE....repeat. Maybe the reason there are only two websites making money...at most..is that they covered the market on what is out there. So....I would ask you...is it time to rethink your business model?
You could pay an aspiring website designer...that you found via craigslist....maybe $50 in this economy... to design you an eye-friendly website that people WANT to view for more than 30 seconds that doesn't look...at best...like it was designed in 1996.
Choose what you like for content...but I would bet you that 95% of sprint car fans don't give a single glance to the press releases on websites....so why waste space on them? Seriously...where did this trend come from? Same thing with photos....if it looks uninteresting the first time you see it...it isn't going to get better over time.
And honestly...if you want the best shooters, minds, writers, and personalities in the business...and expect to make money WITH them...you should really bring much more to the table.
"You get what you pay for...." is a pretty apt statement in this case.
Posted By: Michael_Hill_Photographics on January 22 2010 at 03:32:35 PM
Ooooooh! A great chance to stop lurking and start throwing some pennies!
So....very few sprint car websites are making money. Seems to be the same business model on each. Post a website with horrible graphics...expect to charge banner ads to sponsors...post drivel from EVERYWHERE possible...expect people to give you content for FREE....repeat. Maybe the reason there are only two websites making money...at most..is that they covered the market on what is out there. So....I would ask you...is it time to rethink your business model?
You could pay an aspiring website designer...that you found via craigslist....maybe $50 in this economy... to design you an eye-friendly website that people WANT to view for more than 30 seconds that doesn't look...at best...like it was designed in 1996.
Choose what you like for content...but I would bet you that 95% of sprint car fans don't give a single glance to the press releases on websites....so why waste space on them? Seriously...where did this trend come from? Same thing with photos....if it looks uninteresting the first time you see it...it isn't going to get better over time.
And honestly...if you want the best shooters, minds, writers, and personalities in the business...and expect to make money WITH them...you should really bring much more to the table.
"You get what you pay for...." is a pretty apt statement in this case.
Where's MSPN at?
DAMN RIGHT!
Photographers put alot of work into their photographs, especially the "money" shots of wrecks, amazing finishes, etc. Also, it isn't just take a picture and email it out, good photographers will take their best shots and spend alot of time editing them with every photoshop tool and secret they know. You really can't expect that photographers are going to put everything they have into a photo and then just hand it off to you for free?
Yes some websites do get their images for free, but that is because they are actually doing something for the photographers like giving them media credentials. National exposure is nice, but quite frankly, your website doesn't look that appealing for the sprint car community. That and your photo album has no organization at all, might want to work on that.
If you want our best photographs, you better start showing respect and expect to give something for them. If you don't don't expect to last long
This message was edited on
January 22, 2010 at
04:55:09 PM by Hawker
LMAO!!! Are you guys serious??? Somebody hasn't been laid in a while....LMAO!!!
First off, I make quite a decent living doing my "day job". The website is for fun. If I could make a few bucks to cover my expenses, that would be cool, but I definitely don't dwell on it. so, I don't NEED to "rethink my business model", because it is hardly a business, more like a hobby.
As far as shooters and videographers go, I have a few of the best in the business who already submit work to my site for nothing more than a mention. Also, I'll let you in on a little secret, the good shooters, you know, the ones who actually MAKE money in it, don't need Photoshop to "touch up" their shots. I'll also let you two bozos in on a little secret. None of the openwheel websites are paying for picks.
Credentials 'eh? Are you aware that 95% of all tracks and events do not accept credential requests from "web based" media?
For those who have already contacted me, thanks!
One last thing, I noticed that Mr. Hill found him a $50 designer for his site....zzzzzzzzz.....
Posted By: sprinter25 on January 22 2010 at 06:49:16 AM
C'mon, Stan, literally millions will see your photo and photo credit and the link to your photo web site. They'll then jump over there and buy hundreds of copies of your fabulous pictures.....
OK, sarcasm off now.
While I don't know if Hawker pays for your photos, it seems to me that all you'll be doing is building traffic on HIS site......
I'm a couple years shy of 60 so I'm looking for ways to cut back and do less work, not more.
Posted By: Hawker on January 22 2010 at 02:52:41 PM
Believe me, there are only two sprint car websites in USA making a profit. Openwheel isn't one of them.
Using your analogy, websites should then be charging the series, drivers and tracks to post their PR's...............
My websites are 100% out of pocket my and do not have any sponsors. I tried that early on but found out that all it did was raise my stress level.
This message was edited on
January 22, 2010 at
05:29:44 PM by StanM
Reply to:
Posted By: Hawker on January 22 2010 at 04:53:07 PM
LMAO!!! Are you guys serious??? Somebody hasn't been laid in a while....LMAO!!!
First off, I make quite a decent living doing my "day job". The website is for fun. If I could make a few bucks to cover my expenses, that would be cool, but I definitely don't dwell on it. so, I don't NEED to "rethink my business model", because it is hardly a business, more like a hobby.
As far as shooters and videographers go, I have a few of the best in the business who already submit work to my site for nothing more than a mention. Also, I'll let you in on a little secret, the good shooters, you know, the ones who actually MAKE money in it, don't need Photoshop to "touch up" their shots. I'll also let you two bozos in on a little secret. None of the openwheel websites are paying for picks.
Credentials 'eh? Are you aware that 95% of all tracks and events do not accept credential requests from "web based" media?
For those who have already contacted me, thanks!
One last thing, I noticed that Mr. Hill found him a $50 designer for his site....zzzzzzzzz.....
"I make quite a decent living doing my "day job". The website is for fun."
I'll try to remember to send you a few shots this season. You've got the same "business model" as I do.
P.S. You're right on about credentials and web based media. This being pretty much a hobby for me and seeing as I'm helping out unemployed adult kids and grandkids every penny I save is essential to keep doing this. I get all my credentials for my work with the local publication. If that dried up I'd probably give up the racing and go out shooting wildlife and street rod shows. Like I said, I've been doing this since 1999 and everything that has transpired as a result has been a bonus. One way or another I ain't going to keep doing this forever so I always have to be prepared for that eventual final season. Whatever happens it's been a good run. Enjoy your website because the time will fly by real fast and those stands will start looking more comfortable every year.
Ooooh! How I do love when adults start calling people names.
I ask...any photographer reading...when viewing images on a page....shouldn't it be about the image...not flashy lines and colors that disctract from the image itself? You know where I spend my money? Paying a graphic designer in a wheelchair to do graphics work on my orders so the kid has some spending money while he is in medical school. Thanks to Tony Bruce a couple years ago I even got to throw a chunk of change to him so he could have a nice offroad powered wheelchair. Money well spent I say.
You do have a FEW of the very best that supply you with your content. But I see so very FEW. I will give you Al Consoli....Mike Campbell....Steve Lafond...pillars of the sport I agree. But no Tim Alywin in the gallery? No Bob Hesser (RIP)? No Mike Siefert? No Travis Branch? No John Mierhofer? No Stan Meissner? No Mike Zortman? No Joe Orth? No Rudy Garcia? No Terry Shaw? The list goes on and on and on and on. And there are more that I just don't have at the front of my mind. THESE are the artists...these are the best in the business....and IF they are supplying you with content...you at minimum are not doing them justice by showcasing it.
Where you went awry in my estimation...is when you insinuated that it is OK to EXPECT people to give you things for free and use them to make any money...even if it is to cover some of the cost of your hobby.
Ive seen what you got and its crap, o wow some non winged sprints. You get the photographers who do this as a hobby, not as a career.
And I am not trying to bash my fellow photographers or anything, but anybody who says that they don't need to use photoshop DOESN'T know how to use it and I mean REALLY use it.
The name calling is no different than your slam on your opinion of my site, you wanted to take it in that direction, so live with it. If you didn't like it, fine, but you don't have to be a dick.
Most of those that you listed, were sending me pictures before I suspended my site last year when I went on "vacation" in Afghanistan. Matter of fact, I have known Seifert (one of the best) since before he ever decided to take up shooting. I'm just now trying to get the site back up and running since returning.
The job of Openwheel is not to "showcase talent", if that were the case, I would be charging the shooters, do you not agree? I post the pics from that week's racing on the main page and then rotate them back to the gallery if anyone wants to view them again. The successful shooters don't need another persons site as a showcase, they have their own for that.
B.E.M - I could be wrong and if I am, I'm sure that Mr. Hill will be chomping at the bit to prove me wrong, but there is only one photograper I can think of who shoots sprints and midgets who "makes a living" at photography, and he doesn't make that living from sprints and midgets...And...You can find his work on my site.
Posted By: B.E.M Brett on January 22 2010 at 05:37:14 PM
Ive seen what you got and its crap, o wow some non winged sprints. You get the photographers who do this as a hobby, not as a career.
And I am not trying to bash my fellow photographers or anything, but anybody who says that they don't need to use photoshop DOESN'T know how to use it and I mean REALLY use it.
I take it from your statement that you've never shot a non-wing car?
From the bottom of my heart I thank you for your service to OUR country. I cannot agree with you though respectfully. Calling people names...and expressing someone's opinions are two totally different things. I also ask that you refrain from vulgarity...we have a moral obligation to our fellow...more impressionable, and younger boardmembers.
Another thought I had...being able to make a living at what you do, can and often does occur in spite of not because of one's talent. Many of the photographers I mention are FAR more talented at their craft than those that make more money at it. Also many of the best do not have websites...and it's a shame...more of what they shoot should see the light of day. I think it was Tim Alywin that once said something to the effect to me...that many of his best shots reside only on his hard drive....and you gotta pay to see.
More names coming to me.....Joe Secka, Greg Obst, Jeff Arns.....
This message was edited on
January 22, 2010 at
07:17:46 PM by Hawker
No need to thank me for my service, I was just a contractor over there taking care of their aircraft...
An insult is an insult, some are personal, some are insults to one's work, which when a person puts time and effort into something, only to be insulted, then it turns personal.
Vulgarity - Right or wrong as it may be, what I said can be heard on nearly any prime time television show these days. I think that if you were to look at my track record of 13 years of posting on the various incarnations of the Hoseheads Message Forum, you would know that vulgarity is not my modus operandi, even when confronted with the flamers who have come and gone from this place over the years.
I totally agree with your last paragraph. Like I used to say when I worked in the music business. For every "Eddie VanHalen" who hit it big, there's a kid in his bedroom that could make hime look like a beginner, meaning that there are some people who shoot that don't publish anything that they shoot. We are starting to see that now with people "digging through boxes" and scanning pics from years ago. Lee johnson comes to mind on this exact issue. I had never heard of him until he started posting some amazing photos from over 30 years ago.
Well.....I think Hawker was just asking if anyone "wanted" to submit thier stuff to be put on his "site" that they could. I myself thought he was being bashed or slammed for his posting so I can definelty understand where Hawker was coming from. I am not a "professional " photographer but do like to take them when I can, and not necessarily at just racing venues, so I can appreciate a good photo when I see one. Anyone who is a fan of sprintcars and who puts effort into a fan oriented site, especially for no real personal benefit, has my respect and attention. Yeah the site needs some work but so do alot of others. I'll be sure to check in for any new content and updates.
Posted By: Hawker on January 22 2010 at 07:16:13 PM
No need to thank me for my service, I was just a contractor over there taking care of their aircraft...
An insult is an insult, some are personal, some are insults to one's work, which when a person puts time and effort into something, only to be insulted, then it turns personal.
Vulgarity - Right or wrong as it may be, what I said can be heard on nearly any prime time television show these days. I think that if you were to look at my track record of 13 years of posting on the various incarnations of the Hoseheads Message Forum, you would know that vulgarity is not my modus operandi, even when confronted with the flamers who have come and gone from this place over the years.
I totally agree with your last paragraph. Like I used to say when I worked in the music business. For every "Eddie VanHalen" who hit it big, there's a kid in his bedroom that could make hime look like a beginner, meaning that there are some people who shoot that don't publish anything that they shoot. We are starting to see that now with people "digging through boxes" and scanning pics from years ago. Lee johnson comes to mind on this exact issue. I had never heard of him until he started posting some amazing photos from over 30 years ago.
Names? Gene Marderness......
King of the hypocrites right there! LOL
The greatest knowledge is to know that you know nothing
at all.
