Forum: Racing From The Past (go)
Moderators: Racing From The Past

Get the 2011 race season started at Creek Co. Speedway tomorrow and always exciting to see the first show of the year.

See what the 2011 season brings on with a new car in a couple of weeks (well new/used car) , new shoe , fresh fuel system and a whole lotta enthusiasm and determination. Still get a bit excited about the new year and with a new shoe the excitement level just jumps up a few more notches.

It is the middle of March and about the time that we used to get excited about opening night. It seemed like that the last Saturday of March would never get here. Opening night 1969 was great, it was very cold which made huddling under a blanket with my girlfriend of the time, Jackie, a lot more interesting. The Tulsa World had an article that morning about the Cate's #2 car and that it was going to be driven by a Kansas hot shoe named Leep. This was not a popular move because that car had been driven by Al Lemons.The writer of the article said he thought it would be a "Leep Year" and man he was right.When Harold came out for hot laps he was booed, but I liked the way he drove. He went into turn 1 so much different than any other driver he would go into the turn burp the gas and the lift the front come up about a foot then blast the throttle and go faster than anybody else. He set fast time that night at 18:98 and sweep the program and won the championship at Tulsa, OKC and Wichita. I have been a Leep fan ever since.

1974 was a very different opening night, that was the year that the new track was going to open. The grand opening was put off 2 Weeks for the track to be finished so opening night was in April. There was a practise night on the Thursday before and I was shocked at the track and grandstands. It was so big and fast.We got to the track and got our seats early and that was good because it was a sell out and over 2,000 fans were turned away. The PA system did n't work but we were able to figure out who most of the drivers were. Benny Taylor won the feature and almost $1,300. there will never be a night like that in this region again.

Ray

Guess I'm out of the loop, who's the new driver, J.D.?

John Stewart

Retro Racing Custom Model Cars
405.922.6163
[email protected]
Oklahoma City, OK

Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Retro-
Racing-Custom-Model-Cars/235624429834292#!/pages/Retro-
Racing-Custom-Model-Cars/23562442983429

John, Joe Wood Jr. could not race my car this year , he is going to try for the NCRA Championship and also run some ASCS and also his work hours would not allow him to run at Brill Motor Speedway on Fri. nights for me so we had to find someone with no obligations and felt like could get the job done and going to go with a Mini Sprint driver from I-44 Jason Lair ,recent Champion at I-44.

John, I have a question for you, what did you think of the V6 Modified class that ran on the 1/4 mile back in the mid 80's at Fairgrounds Speedway ???, I know you competed in that class some and just wondered what you thought of it , like/dislike, I know some spent a bunch of cash trying to make those V6's live and not blow up. Just wondered what you thought???

We talked earlier about the price of cars gong up but I am pretty sure that engines have gone up more. From what all the publications say a good 360's will be around $30, 000 and the 410's are pushing $50,000. In the 70's the first crate engine that I know of was Doug Johnson's, he ordered it from Schnider(SIC) and it was $7,000 and that was a lot in 1975. They brought it to Dewey to break it in and spun a cam bearing, man they were upset. The big track in Tulsa ate engines. so they wanted to make sure that it was ready. The most that Norman paid for an engine was to Jim Morris here in Tulsa and it wa less than $5,000 complete. It had the first aluminium heads that we used, carrillo rods and all the trick stuff. Mike won his last feature driving for Norman on an August night in the Stanton car in 1978, Mike was flying that night nobody could catch him he won by a 1/4 lap and this was the Hahn/Crawford era. Jim Morris came down smiling and said how do you like that engine. Sadly it blew into about 1,000 pieces about a week later. The inline 6 cylinders were not very expensive, the hard part was finding good 240 inch block and cranks. Norman told me that he would take a block and crank and head to Jerry Wilson and he would get a completed engine for $800. It had a stock crank and rods, Jerry would bore it to 258 cubes put in flattop pistons and one of his cams. everybody here in Tulsa thought we were cheating but most of the success was Mike,s driving. Norman did make sure that we had the best tires that were out there. Did you ever race at the big track in Tulsa?

Ray

Ray, Motors are WAY more expensive than the cars are % wise compared to back then. A friend of mine who knows the winning Crew Chief of last years Knoxville Nats. said the Kistler Motor in the winning car he was Crew Chief on cost $53,000 bolt in and ready to race.

I remember back in the early 90's the ASCS deal was created by Emmitt H. and heard you could get a really top of the line motor for about $12,000 and race it up to 25 plus shows , just keep good maintenance on it , technology evolves and goes along and now $40,000 is what a top of the line motor runs and heard you might get 18 to 20 shows on them , depending on motor builder recommendations. Thing about it is that most Racers at the ASCS National or Regional level have $$$ , most are a family type deal Father/Mother very weatlthy and son wants to drive a Sprint Car and so we go by $200,000 toter and $100,000 trailer spend another $100,000 on cars/parts and motors and lets go racing, now granted some get used trailers and so on but I am not that far off in price range on the deal, some are owner/driver and some are hired to drive but seems it is more family type deal with being the majority.

It is a shame because some are just not cut out to be race car drivers but Dad and Mom got the loot/$$$$ and spend it to try and make him a race car driver. I always categorized Drivers like this

You have the one's who want to go out and make circles and say I am a race car driver and then you have those that go out and make circles and WIN!! and prove they are race car drivers.

Ray back in 77-79 we would come up to the Old Tulsa Speedway and watch/help Bob "The Bullet" Ewell run the 5/8 big track. That is really were I caught the Racing bug to become a owner but unfortunately never was able to run a car that I owned there at Tulsa Fairgrounds,I intrigued by the speed and trying to get a car to react and figure out how to make it react the way you/driver wants, Bob had some really bad luck with Motors when running up there, seemed he would be leading the A main and BOOM , motor would let go , seemed it happen time after time after time, him and his sponsor Steve Branch with Branch's Discount Auto Supply were building the motors and finally figured out how to make one live on the BIG track and finally in 78 I believe Bob won an A main up there,another thing is when he would come in from an A main at the place he would need to stop and sit on the trailer and rest and get liquids in him ,said that place would wear you out on the BIG track for a driver, the old Tulsa Fairgrounds was just something 10,000 plus folks in the stands on a Sat. night and it was really the first time I ever really heard fans react to drivers as far as booing and cheering in masses and stompin on those metal bleachers, seemed about 1/2 were for Emmitt H. and 1/2 for Ray Crawford and all were not shy to let you know about it back then, first time we came up from Lawton in 76 or 77 , I thought as a teenager I was fixing to see a full scale riot in the stands with folks cheering and booing , still remember that clearly ,LOL. People would react at Lawton Speedway when I was growing up watching at the place but nothing like at Tulsa Speedway , it was on another level I would have to say.

I was able to own a car when the track north of Tulsa ran , only got to run their one time back in the late 80's and wished I would have done more but I guess $$$ or lack of at the time kept me racing close to home and then they (Tulsa) went to Sprints way before we got rid of the 100" cars in the OKC area.

I still might try this new Wingless Sprint class that has come about the last several years, got a Sport Mod motor in it , takes about $2,000 to $3,000 to build and with the way Champ Sprint motors are headed in costs lower to mid $20 G's , starting to creep up to really really unbelievable level/prices and just like anything today with racing if you don't have it or able to get it you WILL fall behind, that is just my theory but I believe in it wholeheardtly. J.D.

I know I keep talking about Mike Peters a lot but he is the one I helped and talked racing with. In 1975 we ran a 11- 12 inch wide drag tire on the right front with out power sterring and went to power sterring on the 71 in 1976. We left the 117 in the modifieds with Gene See with no power sterring.The 6 cyl. did not have enough power. The track at Tulsa was hard on engines like I had said earlier I saw the tattle tack on the Jerry Wilson car pegged one night when it blew. I do not remember the Zink car blowing any engines and the Crawford car did not blow very many . The Suchy car blew about evrey other week. There were alot of fan clubs here for drivers other than Hahn and Crawford. Darrell brazeal and Chick Shaddoox had real strong followings. But the best way to start a fight was to get the Hahn and Crawford fans after each other. It is a shame about all the ride buying now. Mike and I were watching a couple Mike said let them take their wings off and see how good they are. Mike and Shane started without wings and could drive with or without.

Ray

Ray, Ya know Mike Peters in my opinion is an "Iron Man" Racer around here, he has been doing it so long and been successful with everyone he has drove for and still can get it done today,not to many can say that in this day and time, I believe he is still a threat to win anytime and anywhere he rolls onto a race track , I to remember a young Mike Peters at Tulsa and coming to Lawton and running some NCRA shows back in the 70's, Probably did not pay as much attention to him then with all the other Big names that ran at the time but I do remember him then racing and also remember when he was driving the Hill & Kearney Champ Dirt and then Beamans deal in 80's and then bouncing around in some rides and then getting with Court Grandstaff in the 90's and running for quite a few years and they were pretty lethal back then, won the Winter Nat. deal at Dallas in the mid 90's and outrun a stout field that night , heck I still got a hero card Court gave me on my wall in my garage with him and Mike standing beside the red Trop Artic 66 car and then the Mid America #49 ride and also running for his boy in the 51 car. but one thing that sticks out more than anything about Mike was back in 07 or 08 when he hit the front straightaway concrete wall nearly headon at speed at State Fair Speedway in OKC and just destroyed the car and Mike gets out and walks away from that and I remember him saying to someone in his pit area while me and many others were around looking at the car and they were figuring out how to load it and he told someone there that ask him how he was and he said he might be a bit sore tommorrow and I thought Ya think!! so from then on he gets my endorsement since that night for one tough Hombre and or Iron Man. I mean he was on the hammer and track was really rough coming off of turn 4 and something broke or ??? and he had no time to get out of the gas or get on the binders.

I remember Brazeal, he was really first one to run for Lloyd K.Stephens I believe????, car was 21 but was red and blue and not orange and black and really a nice car. Did'nt something happen to Darrell???, cannot remember what or maybe I am mistaken???

I to often wonder what they turned at Tulsa back then on the 5/8 mile , maybe David could enlighten us , he would know I bet .

I remember back in the mid/late 90's the paper clip 3/8 track north of Tulsa , I heard some turned them 9000-9500 RPM's , I know Leon Bacon , Ted Bacon's son ran a 2 Bar. Sprint there then and he was winning a lot and ya had to gear it up to get off the corner but at the end of back straightaway going into 3 it sounded like the motor was straining so bad with valves pinging , ya just wondered when a valve head would pop off and motor would just let go, but never did, but it really made ya wonder.

As for the ride buying today it really is a shame and seems to happen more and more even down on the Sprint Car Level as well WoO/USAC for example, I guess no one finds it still fun anymore unless it is a family deal , like me , guess I am crazy to still do it , but still got that something in me that keeps me stayin at it.Kind of like last night last had 2 things left to do and that was run the valves and put some fuel in it and the car is done from last 4 months of building it from bare frame and now it is ready for the 2011 season and also hooked up the trailer to my truck for the season, which signals to me that is it Spring time,lol. but finished the car and now just start it this weekend and hear the motor run again and apply the graphics in the next week or so and here we go again for another season but I got a rookie kid fresh out of Mini Sprints and no ride buying here , just figure give him a shot and I beleive he can get the job done and has the talent, Probably even a little more excited than usual but that maybe just $pocket book$ nerves as well ,LOL.

I know this racing deal today is probably as not as much fun as you all had back then but that is about all I ever wanted to do was own a Open Wheel Race Car from growing up watching folks like you and others that post on here and feel fortunate to have been able to do that for the past 24 yrs. Not a big time car owner like the Ray Cates, Bill Beamans ,Lloyd K. Stephens,or more recent guys like Don Strawn of the world, guess I just do what I can with what I got and race my car ,never was fortunate enough to have a kid to get to race with or I might be in the family type category but had some good shoes over the years, some with more talent and desire than others, from that guy you all know as Brian26 first shoe to Joe Wood Jr. most recent shoe to now Jason Lair , been a lot of fun and probably spent way to much money but I have have a hell of a time doing it still. J.D.

J.D.Darrell Brazeal was as good of driver as Hahn or Crawford and he was the first or second driver for OFIXCO he brought his number 21with him. It was during hot laps and a newspaper photographer was driving around in his white JEEP and he decided to cross the track and did not see Darrell and Darell T-boned him and had a bad head injury. and never raced again. He was the first track champ at the big track in 1974. I do not remember exactly the order with OFIXCO Jan Opperman might have been the first driver. He drove one race for them and did not get along with Steve Carbone and they spilt. That is how Jerry Stone got the ride. It would be interesting to know how many rpms that were turned at the big track, we never ran a tack. The tattle tell tack that I saw on Jerry Wilson's car that was pegged was a 10,000 RPM one.I think it is great that you picked a up and coming drvier for your car that is how it used to be done. Mike got the ride with Norman because he did a good job in his family car. I am glad that you like Mike I have not talked to him in years. He is 60 and will be 61 in August

Ray

I knew there was something that happened to Darrell and just could not remember what happened that I heard, Ray Thanks for clearing that up , Darrell was team mates with Junior Taft before the Stephens deal was'nt he??, 21 Darrell and 22 car Junior , Paul Hawes Pools cars I believe, both exactly alike other than the number and that was when Junior got killed when he junped a wheel of another car while on the gas down the backstretch at Tulsa and went completely out of the race track and crashed through the back stretch wooden fence and pieces of the car landed out on Yale Ave. as well as everywhere else, they delayed the races for a while and debated whether to continue and cannot remember if they decided to call the race or did they finish the show, Me and My Mom and Dad just happened to be up there that night , was it 75 or 76, heck might have some of the info wrong I was only about 10-12 or so then, but I remember that was the first driver I had ever seen killed in a race car and that told me that this sport is not all fun and games.

Tulsa back then was just like Big time racing to me back then Big Grandstands, Big Crowds and Lots of Cars.

Will probably get to see Mike run more this year since we use to get to watch him every Fri. night at OKC , with us going to venture up Kansas way and watch Joe Wood Jr. run a lot of NCRA shows and try and win that Championship,will get to see some others run that I use to watch run way back when or maybe it will be there sons or grandsons, like Selenke , Johnson, Etc.

Get to pass through Wellington,Ks. and stop at the what use to be Howard Johnsons in hiway hotel and get a Ho Jo To Go Soda (Now it's a McDonald's) really just not the same,seems that Ho Jo was just cold and tasty and hit the spot on the way to a race in Ks. , anyway will stroll on up I-35 and take the east side split around Wichita and pass the 29th St. exit and wonder what if Nance Speed Equip. was still around?? and get to the now closed down dog race track and turn left and stroll up to 81 Speedway and see C Ray's Racing Palace or just head on west to Hutch where I have not been since 87 and with Joe Wood Jr. running in it this year will probably make the trip if all possible but it probably won't be the same without the infield brimming full of cars and in the middle of the day but I bet the echo is still the same off of that wall??? and maybe even make it out to Dodge City , was there back in 06 and had a great time out there, watched the ASCS guys race and saw some of the fastest Hornets ever on pavement, plus it is a nice facility.

Thanks for the props on the way of picking my driver Ray, I feel my drivers got a Big Heart and a lot of determination and hope the motor puts out a whole lot of HP and car will react well and we can have some success like I had with Joe Wood Jr. the past several years and have a little fun as well. J.D.

Jr Taft was killed in 1981 the same year that Gene Daniel was. this lead to thae big track being closed and they ran on the little track for a year or two until the promoter lost his lese and moved North. I started going to the races in 1968 and Jr. Taft was driving the sedan that is on this site under Tulsa supers in the 60's. Jr built himself a new car and Darrell started driving the sedan in 1970, Darrell had driven before but I don't know what he drove. In 1971 Jr built a new space frame sprint car super for Darrell.He built one for himself in 1972 and built a new one for Darrell in 1973, that is the car that he won the championship with in1974. I don't know many cars that they built between then and 1981, they always looked a like #21 and #22 When you talk to Mike tell him that I said Hi

Ray

Like I said was not completely sure when it was for some reason the 70's stuck in my mind when he was killed.

Will do when I see Mike this year.

We were just talking about how things change now and mentioned NSSN publication struggling because of the internet , well just read and heard today that the NSSN will cease publication of NSSN tommorrow Mar. 23rd,2011 will be there last paper issue. Been taking it since 77 or 78 , Just a bad deal. It is on their website with an article by Corrine Economaki.

I stopped my my flat Out and sprint car and midget and kept speed sport I guess I will contact Flat out and start it again. I had just renewed Speed Sport in January, what are they going to do with all the subs that had not ran out? I have never been on their web site i guess I will try it

ray

JD are you going to race at Creek County or South Coffeyville after about June 1? I would like to come and meet you and watch a race since I have not been to one in over 10 years. I am having back surgery in April (if the 2 doctors can get their schedules together) and probably would not be able to ride before then.

Ray

You know your not suppose to listen to the NASCAR channel, LOL

Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes

Ray, We are only planning on running my Sprinter at Brill Motor Speedway which is north of Shawnee,Okla. about 15 miles on Friday nights and they are suppose to begin the season on Apr. 15th and run through August , really just tough to race far away this year like we did last year plus having a rookie shoe , just going to try and get him use to one place and then see how that works out and go from there.

Got to economics race this year to help my budget, gas is so freakin high now and well it just costs so much to travel very far. If ya could ever make it down to BMS on a Friday night and get ya a Pit Pass , we can set you up in chair at the back of the trailer, get you some beverages of choice and at BMS you can see the whole track from the pit area and heck you might be able to teach us a thing or two, we are ALWAYS open to learning anything possible from someone in the know and you'd be very welcomed to come down.

As for the NSSN deal, not sure what they will do with subscriptions, wondering if they will let you access their webpage and read it till your sub runs out and then renew it through the webpage, ???? , guess that question is to be answered.??? J.D.

I am not able to drive over about 20 miles because my legs get numb. Hopefully this will get better after the next surgery but the neurologist said to not get my hopes up, that I will probably just have less pain. If it is alright with you I will have my wife drive us to the race track and would love to sit at your trailer. We will cover our pit passes. I don't think that I will be much help because everything is so different now and I was not a very good set-up man. I changed gears and tires and sometimes messed with the bars and the front spring. The only time that we would chang shocks is when they were torn up in a wreck and then we would use standard car shocks. I changed the jets in the carb a lot and that sure would not help you. This will give me something to look forward to this summer.

I have already called and got a subscription to Flat Out. I will really miss Speed Sport. On Speed Sport's web site it said to call Speedway Illustrated and we will get it for the rest of the year. I called and they said it has not been worked out yet.

When we come to the races we will probably make a weekend out of it and spend the night in a motel at Shawnee, are there some reasonable ones there? Saturday we will take I-40 to Van Buren AR and look around I have already talked to mu wife, Carol, and she said that that would be an interesting weekend

Thanks

Ray

Ray, I hope the surgery is a success and helps you out and gets you back to where you can live ya life well and get out.

Ray if you and your wife decide to come to BMS for a Friday night show , I will personally talk to Mark Brill and make sure you can just bring your car up by our trailer and park it and not have to walk but maybe 5 or so yards to a waiting chair for you and your wife at the back of the trailer, would be an honor if you could make it down.Try to give you the best VIP treatment we could at the 71 Sprinter.

Your right the racing and race cars has changed , cookie cutter cars and pieces mass produced and shocks now are just almost unbelieveable how you can tune a chassis with shocks, but really we just try and use the KISS theory of "Keep It Simple Stupid" and not get to caught up in to many of the theories and stuff, sometimes it makes you outthink/overthink yourself and if ya want to race in this time era, downtube chassis and expensive motors and light weight components are the norm.

There are a couple of good hotels in Shawnee right there at the Hwy.18 and I-40 exit , which the track is north of I-40 on Hwy.18 about 15 or 16 miles. When the time gets more closer and you are serious about coming down let me know and can call a couple of hotels and see what the costs are for ya and let ya know. Again be great if you could make it down and just hope between now and then motor stays together and the new shoe keeps his head about him and we don't tear up to much and have to park it , but again be great if you could make it down one night, be an honor to have ya there. J.D.