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Topic: Central PA 305 series racers Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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stainless
MyWebsite
January 10, 2019 at 07:47:15 PM
Joined: 07/24/2011
Posts: 68
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Just asking for opinions on a few things.

Your series leader says the reason they will not up your purse is because the series is a recreational sport for the common working man and he does not want any big dollar teams coming into the series and out spending the little guys? Your series can not run bleeders because they will cost the guys to much money? Your series can not run wing sliders because it will cost the racers to much ? But yet your series leader is getting a $30,000.00 Kevin Glee motor built for this year. I thought your leader was all about a racing series for the COMMON working man? 

Just asking?????????????????




willf270
MyWebsite
January 10, 2019 at 08:00:40 PM
Joined: 03/26/2014
Posts: 98
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Reply to:
Posted By: stainless on January 10 2019 at 07:47:15 PM

Just asking for opinions on a few things.

Your series leader says the reason they will not up your purse is because the series is a recreational sport for the common working man and he does not want any big dollar teams coming into the series and out spending the little guys? Your series can not run bleeders because they will cost the guys to much money? Your series can not run wing sliders because it will cost the racers to much ? But yet your series leader is getting a $30,000.00 Kevin Glee motor built for this year. I thought your leader was all about a racing series for the COMMON working man? 

Just asking?????????????????



There is no dirt racing series just for low budget, rereational sport teams in any form of racing. But if this fact is true, they should ban him from the series,



racer goin broke
January 11, 2019 at 03:55:18 PM
Joined: 03/02/2016
Posts: 75
Reply

Wait for the normal response that even if he is building that expensive of a motor it doesn't matter because a junkyard motor can be competitive.   That is the BS that Racesaver is based on.  Their BS about being cost saving class is nonsense also.

If they were really worried about cost containment a $4500 fuel injection,  that speedway motors sells just for 305s would have been outlawed from the start.  Allowing a car full of titanium is a joke also.  If you want a good laugh read the rules.  A team is allowed to have the blocks shaved, which is $1000 or more, but then must bolt on weight..

 Instead of fixing the problem of teams running the $235 Hoosier right rear by outlawing it. The Racesaver group mandated a spec tire.  That the teams pay $178 or more for and can run as many new ones a night. How is that cost savings?  I sold 5 right rears to Mike Wagner for $100 when his boys were kicking butt  at Port.  They won the feature on $20 tires.  That is how 305 racing should be but those days have passed because  someone is getting a percentage of all the tires sold.  But we have the best interest of the racers in mind ? Sarcasm

I know a guy that won titles here in Pa in the 305s and he quit because the rules are a joke.

When a series that is supposed to be for the working man will allow Donny Shatz quality roller to show up with a 305 in, has clearly jumped the shark.

And as far as the purses I am surprised Pa hasn't cut the purse because NJ cars will run for $100 why not Pa.  I guarantee the purse in Pa will never go up because too many cars show up now to run .  I am surprised that here in Pa we don't run just 410s and Late Models and 305s as the economy division.   

I don't hate the 305s.  I hate what they have become and the BS the leaders spew!!!!



linbob
January 11, 2019 at 04:56:27 PM
Joined: 03/12/2011
Posts: 1202
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Reply to:
Posted By: willf270 on January 10 2019 at 08:00:40 PM

There is no dirt racing series just for low budget, rereational sport teams in any form of racing. But if this fact is true, they should ban him from the series,



Knoxville ran a Pace crate engine and all steel 305.  The Dart 200 cc steel head is probably better than Racesaver head.  The class was won by a Pace engine.  The car never used new tire all year.  As far as I know his tires were free that 410 and 360 teams discard at track.  I think Knoxville pays  about $400 to win.  The new Pace engines run about $19,000 complete with exh headers, alternator, battery and ignit. box, but $19,000 is alot of money.  The all steel 305 are no longer legal for some odd reason.  The Pace engine is all alum..  I do not care what you run, people spend way to much money.  Soap box derby had so much cheating that they have a kit car that every one must use.  Guys were using wind tunnels and powerful magnets  to help cars out of gate.  People cheet with pine cars derby.  Problem is a $30,000 engine is not cheating if all the rules are legal inside of engine.  My idea for an equilizer is that this weeks feature winner must start in last place next week.  I suggest you get your chassis set up well and whip his ass come race day.



91RI
January 11, 2019 at 06:20:22 PM
Joined: 03/01/2005
Posts: 199
Reply

In parts of the country that no longer have a strong sprint car presence, there arw guys spending more to run 600s than I spend on a 410.  Racers are their own worst enemy.



rokit
January 14, 2019 at 11:33:25 AM
Joined: 07/16/2006
Posts: 1
Reply

This is Rod Ort, I don't normally waste my time responding to anonamous trolls on the internet but this is a lie.

I will hapily sell any motor I have (or will have) for $15,000 (thats half price!)

I could care less if you are rich as long as you want to race by the rules. Our purse will always be structured to pay throughout the field. If you plan to build a big dollar motor don't expect us to REWARD your spending with a purse that pays it all up front. We take all can get and give the tracks and the fans a hell of a race.

If you want the truth please contact me in person, please don't publish lies to promote your own agenda and don't expect me to respond to you here, I make myself available to our teams and deal directly with them.



kglee25
January 14, 2019 at 12:46:05 PM
Joined: 01/14/2019
Posts: 2
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Reply to:
Posted By: stainless on January 10 2019 at 07:47:15 PM

Just asking for opinions on a few things.

Your series leader says the reason they will not up your purse is because the series is a recreational sport for the common working man and he does not want any big dollar teams coming into the series and out spending the little guys? Your series can not run bleeders because they will cost the guys to much money? Your series can not run wing sliders because it will cost the racers to much ? But yet your series leader is getting a $30,000.00 Kevin Glee motor built for this year. I thought your leader was all about a racing series for the COMMON working man? 

Just asking?????????????????



I would appreciate knowledge of who you are? So we could sit and talk about truths. Your post you claim to be asking for "opinions on a few things," but I don't see any opinions wanted seems as though you just want to make accusations that are very untrue. Please leave my name off any negativity until you gather all your facts rather then requesting opinions. 



kglee25
January 14, 2019 at 12:46:23 PM
Joined: 01/14/2019
Posts: 2
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: willf270 on January 10 2019 at 08:00:40 PM

There is no dirt racing series just for low budget, rereational sport teams in any form of racing. But if this fact is true, they should ban him from the series,



I would appreciate knowledge of who you are? So we could sit and talk about truths. Your post you claim to be asking for "opinions on a few things," but I don't see any opinions wanted seems as though you just want to make accusations that are very untrue. Please leave my name off any negativity until you gather all your facts rather then requesting opinions. 



W2Motorsports
January 14, 2019 at 01:43:00 PM
Joined: 03/02/2017
Posts: 126
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: stainless on January 10 2019 at 07:47:15 PM

Just asking for opinions on a few things.

Your series leader says the reason they will not up your purse is because the series is a recreational sport for the common working man and he does not want any big dollar teams coming into the series and out spending the little guys? Your series can not run bleeders because they will cost the guys to much money? Your series can not run wing sliders because it will cost the racers to much ? But yet your series leader is getting a $30,000.00 Kevin Glee motor built for this year. I thought your leader was all about a racing series for the COMMON working man? 

Just asking?????????????????



I chose to buy a 305 instead of a 358 for most of the reasons that you addressed in your post. 

Rod can buy whatever engine he wants to as long as it is legal, hell there are probably more than a few guys running engines that cost $25k+. I know they are out there, why shouldn't Rod be able to run one in his if its legal and he can afford it? I wouldn't say it is Racesaver or PA Sprint Series fault that engines cost that much, it's a universal problem with racing and there is pretty much no way to stop builders from offering expensive stuff that caters to certain sets of rules. The fact remains that many of the winners in Racesaver events are winning with engines that are several years old, and were not very expensive to begin with. 

 



frebyrd
January 14, 2019 at 03:28:26 PM
Joined: 07/07/2012
Posts: 24
Reply

Don't care how much they cost, just make sure you always run them last , so can leave after the 410 feature, THANK YOU



linbob
January 14, 2019 at 05:31:57 PM
Joined: 03/12/2011
Posts: 1202
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: frebyrd on January 14 2019 at 03:28:26 PM

Don't care how much they cost, just make sure you always run them last , so can leave after the 410 feature, THANK YOU



You are saying you are not much of a sprint car fan.



HoldenCaulfield
January 14, 2019 at 07:50:30 PM
Joined: 03/22/2008
Posts: 1499
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Reply to:
Posted By: frebyrd on January 14 2019 at 03:28:26 PM

Don't care how much they cost, just make sure you always run them last , so can leave after the 410 feature, THANK YOU



Amen! And please keep them OFF 1/2 mile tracks. They are OK at small tracks like Clinton County and Path Valley, but even pro stocks and LLM's are more interesting on the bigger tracks. For 25-30G, you would think one could get a competetive 358 or 360 and race for a little more money. Tracks love 305's though because they race for a hot dog and a coke and bring a lot of cars. Then they wonder where all the fans are. Hmmmm, a few years ago a 700 HP off the shelf engine(430 CI) that cost 20G and ran 20+ races between rebuilds was developed for sprint cars, but the sprint car community rejected it. Now teams are spending 30G for a 305? Imagine that!



ohio wing fan
January 14, 2019 at 09:02:48 PM
Joined: 10/19/2017
Posts: 32
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: rokit on January 14 2019 at 11:33:25 AM

This is Rod Ort, I don't normally waste my time responding to anonamous trolls on the internet but this is a lie.

I will hapily sell any motor I have (or will have) for $15,000 (thats half price!)

I could care less if you are rich as long as you want to race by the rules. Our purse will always be structured to pay throughout the field. If you plan to build a big dollar motor don't expect us to REWARD your spending with a purse that pays it all up front. We take all can get and give the tracks and the fans a hell of a race.

If you want the truth please contact me in person, please don't publish lies to promote your own agenda and don't expect me to respond to you here, I make myself available to our teams and deal directly with them.



you should set a better example among all the guys and gals in your club .. high dollar motor for 30K is terrible 

for the man who trying to keep cost down.. 



ohio wing fan
January 14, 2019 at 09:05:27 PM
Joined: 10/19/2017
Posts: 32
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: stainless on January 10 2019 at 07:47:15 PM

Just asking for opinions on a few things.

Your series leader says the reason they will not up your purse is because the series is a recreational sport for the common working man and he does not want any big dollar teams coming into the series and out spending the little guys? Your series can not run bleeders because they will cost the guys to much money? Your series can not run wing sliders because it will cost the racers to much ? But yet your series leader is getting a $30,000.00 Kevin Glee motor built for this year. I thought your leader was all about a racing series for the COMMON working man? 

Just asking?????????????????



I agree who is checking his 30K motor? 



frebyrd
January 15, 2019 at 05:52:51 AM
Joined: 07/07/2012
Posts: 24
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: linbob on January 14 2019 at 05:31:57 PM

You are saying you are not much of a sprint car fan.



If you call a yellow flag every other lap racing, YOU ENJOY!! 



W2Motorsports
January 15, 2019 at 08:56:21 AM
Joined: 03/02/2017
Posts: 126
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Reply to:
Posted By: frebyrd on January 15 2019 at 05:52:51 AM

If you call a yellow flag every other lap racing, YOU ENJOY!! 



I've seen nights at Lincoln when the 410s had caution after caution after caution (the night Tyler Ross flipped into the overhead lights in 2017 comes to mind, also the night this season when Dietrich and Monteith destroyed their cars comes to mind as well). I've seen some 305 wreck fests for sure, but I've seen just as many events with one caution or less in 20 laps. 



racefanigan
January 15, 2019 at 09:25:19 AM
Joined: 07/31/2007
Posts: 190
Reply
This message was edited on January 15, 2019 at 09:28:37 AM by racefanigan

Welcome guys, to the never ending debate of engine costs! I would just like to point out some things that people might not think of. 

Someone mentioned building a 360 rather than a 305 for 30K. Yes, you are right, you could build a competitive local 360 for that cost, and are racing for a little more money. However, what people fail to think of when it comes to 360 racing over 305 racing is rebuild time/cost. Your 305 can likely go for 40 races before it needs to be rebuilt. Your 360 will need a rebuild at double the cost every 20 races. So if your rebuild on your 305 costs you $2k every 40, and your 360 costs you $4k every 20 (hypothetical numbers, rebuild prices vary because major components need changing more often), you've already spent 4 times the money in rebuilds alone on the 360 by the time the first one comes around on a 305. Not only that, 360 engines put more stress on internals than 305s do, so that means that you are replacing a $1600 Sonny Bryant crank long before a $500 Calies or COMP in your 305. That is just the way it is. Yes, 305 engines can cost a lot of money, and I am not saying that I agree with that completely, but no racing will ever be cheap, and the beauty of the Racesaver rules, it it does in fact keep everything even. The engine that I had cost $11K in 2015. The night I won, the 3rd place driver had an engine that cost at least double mine. Thats the way the rules are. In a 360, a guy that has a $40k engine makes much more power than a guy that has a $20k engine, it is not as drastic in the 305 deal. The rebuild factor alone puts you ahead on the long run with a 305, regardless of what you initial investment is. 

I am not sure on what your local payout is for Racesavers, but around here, (Nebraska, South Dakota, Minnesota) they generally pay $500-$700 to win, and $175-$225 to start. Now there is no more "Weekly" 360 racing around other than Knoxville. Jackson has the Midwest Power Series, NE has the NE360 deal, and SD/IA has the MSTS . I believe most of those races pay somewhere around $1200-$3000 to win (most likely closer to the lower end on most of them except for a few specials) and $200-$500 to start (again, most likely closet to the lower end). Around here, you would be dumb to not have a 305 engine. Half of the 360 races in the 4 state area pay the same as most of the 305 races do to start. Granted winners share is not the same, start money pretty much is spot on. And they have really taken off around here.

I would rather build a 305 for $30k over a 360 for $30k when the purses are that close, because I know how much more it is going to cost me over time to keep that 360 engine running on top, versus what it would for that 305. 



W2Motorsports
January 15, 2019 at 09:56:17 AM
Joined: 03/02/2017
Posts: 126
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: racefanigan on January 15 2019 at 09:25:19 AM

Welcome guys, to the never ending debate of engine costs! I would just like to point out some things that people might not think of. 

Someone mentioned building a 360 rather than a 305 for 30K. Yes, you are right, you could build a competitive local 360 for that cost, and are racing for a little more money. However, what people fail to think of when it comes to 360 racing over 305 racing is rebuild time/cost. Your 305 can likely go for 40 races before it needs to be rebuilt. Your 360 will need a rebuild at double the cost every 20 races. So if your rebuild on your 305 costs you $2k every 40, and your 360 costs you $4k every 20 (hypothetical numbers, rebuild prices vary because major components need changing more often), you've already spent 4 times the money in rebuilds alone on the 360 by the time the first one comes around on a 305. Not only that, 360 engines put more stress on internals than 305s do, so that means that you are replacing a $1600 Sonny Bryant crank long before a $500 Calies or COMP in your 305. That is just the way it is. Yes, 305 engines can cost a lot of money, and I am not saying that I agree with that completely, but no racing will ever be cheap, and the beauty of the Racesaver rules, it it does in fact keep everything even. The engine that I had cost $11K in 2015. The night I won, the 3rd place driver had an engine that cost at least double mine. Thats the way the rules are. In a 360, a guy that has a $40k engine makes much more power than a guy that has a $20k engine, it is not as drastic in the 305 deal. The rebuild factor alone puts you ahead on the long run with a 305, regardless of what you initial investment is. 

I am not sure on what your local payout is for Racesavers, but around here, (Nebraska, South Dakota, Minnesota) they generally pay $500-$700 to win, and $175-$225 to start. Now there is no more "Weekly" 360 racing around other than Knoxville. Jackson has the Midwest Power Series, NE has the NE360 deal, and SD/IA has the MSTS . I believe most of those races pay somewhere around $1200-$3000 to win (most likely closer to the lower end on most of them except for a few specials) and $200-$500 to start (again, most likely closet to the lower end). Around here, you would be dumb to not have a 305 engine. Half of the 360 races in the 4 state area pay the same as most of the 305 races do to start. Granted winners share is not the same, start money pretty much is spot on. And they have really taken off around here.

I would rather build a 305 for $30k over a 360 for $30k when the purses are that close, because I know how much more it is going to cost me over time to keep that 360 engine running on top, versus what it would for that 305. 



In PA most of our regular shows are $300 to win, and $150 to start which isn't bad but not as good as out there. I am afraid with purses like you guys have you would see guys dropping down from 358s and 360s to pick off the big shows in 305s. Our biggest races pay $1000 to win and $300 or so to start and we don't really get any big name guys jumping in to run just that race which is perfect in my opinion.

I fully agree on the engine costs. It's $2400 to rebuild my engine, and I expect 35-40 races out of it. I'm planning to buy a new engine in the off season and I'll probably spend about $10-$12k on it. I'll have two competitive engines with less than $20k between both of them - I don't see many 358 teams or 360 teams that can say that. 



ohio wing fan
January 15, 2019 at 04:46:11 PM
Joined: 10/19/2017
Posts: 32
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Reply to:
Posted By: W2Motorsports on January 15 2019 at 09:56:17 AM

In PA most of our regular shows are $300 to win, and $150 to start which isn't bad but not as good as out there. I am afraid with purses like you guys have you would see guys dropping down from 358s and 360s to pick off the big shows in 305s. Our biggest races pay $1000 to win and $300 or so to start and we don't really get any big name guys jumping in to run just that race which is perfect in my opinion.

I fully agree on the engine costs. It's $2400 to rebuild my engine, and I expect 35-40 races out of it. I'm planning to buy a new engine in the off season and I'll probably spend about $10-$12k on it. I'll have two competitive engines with less than $20k between both of them - I don't see many 358 teams or 360 teams that can say that. 



I wish your seris director set the same example as you do!! you are doing the right thing.. I hope you go right around

Rod Ort every race..30K is crazy for the guy who is telling every one its about having fun.. Thats why he will not let 410 drivers race 



racer goin broke
January 15, 2019 at 06:45:21 PM
Joined: 03/02/2016
Posts: 75
Reply

No one ever addresses the facts about 305 racing.  It might have started out being a working man's class.  But not even close anymore.   If people aren't being $4500 305 specific injection then why is it being sold.  Why are people building $20k or more engines.  I know why because racers will spend anything to be the big fish in a little pond.  But 305's are turning into what happened to the 410's 30 years ago.   Two or three people started buying every new trick piece and winning so instead of nipping it in the bud the arms race began.  The same thing is happening in the 305's people are spending big bucks and when they start winning all the time everybody's ego kicks in and they buy it also.

Quit buying the B'S propaganda Racesaver puts out about spending little money. Yes you can spend little to show up and race but what do the majority of the winners have in their cars?

How do the rules make sense when  bolting on a new tire every heat and feature saves money?  Krietz just advertised a new 305 rear end and if a person got all the bells and whistles it was $2500.  A special aluminum driveshaft?  Can a team run a $1200 AL Drivshaft?  I know a guy whose whole car was titanium filled.  And another had $1000 special headers. I know some will say you don't have to spend that money.  But why do the rules even allow it?  French and the Racesaver owner are the ones racking in the money.

On a side note I would not be surprised that here in Pa that all the other sprint cars , and maybe even the sportsman; will be dropped for the 305s. 410 will always be around because they bring the crowd.   305's bring lots of back gate money and purse is low.   Who could blame the promoters? 

The 305 concept was good just terrible execution. 





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