Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Every time the Outlaws are scheduled to go to a region of other "Great Drivers" their seems to be the hopes

that the hometown heros are going to come out on top! Whether. you go east to Posse land or West to California or back to Sprint Car Country Knoxville it's the Worlds Best Drivers ho have been coming on top. They dominated California, PA and Knoxville 

One of the other feeds this week who's your money on had Brown and Madsens on top of the qualyfiying and  be the ones to win.

Back in the day when I was young and raced I could of stayed home and been a track champion but it was a team choice to travel track to track to get exsposure.. Wonder if a lot of the Outlaw guys had that  same  type of exsposure or did they get that from being on the Outlaw tour? 

Anyone have info on their  past e exsposure's?

Its been a good few weeks of racing Sweet, Schatz and Gravel are all bringing their Game to the table. They are the best of the best at the moment! 

WOO has it so fast qualifing cars start pole for heats races. So they can make it to the dash race so you start up front in the A mains.

It's easier to be "on their game" when the format is slanted to be in their favor.

Interesting excuse, but gravel and Schatz were quick time last night, and the 8 dash pill was drawn. I think that means they had to pass cars to finish 1st and 2nd, but who knows? It was probably the format...

Thank you. You just proved my point! The race with the most passing was the one that inverted 8 cars! Friday the invert was 0 and Sweet won his heat, dash & A without 1 competitive pass.

And Donny started outside front row in the A. Gravel started right behind him in the A.

+1

To be fair the Madsens won 2 of 3 at Jackson. They might not have won at their home track in Knoxville but they certainly were very strong at another local track.

I don't understand the format being slanted to the WoO. Is there some kind of qualifying penalty for non-platinum WoO teams? I do believe they qualify weekly at Knoxville. Who really is at the disadvantage, the guys who qualify weekly or the guys there for the 1st time all year? There is more than 1 outlaw level team that races weekly at Knoxville. Schatz and Gravel seemed to pass the guys who race KVille every week just fine. Would it have mattered if it was the dash or the feature?

Not being an A-hole, but everyone signs in and plays by the same rules every single night  

DA 

Unlike WOO at Knoxville when qualifing fastest you do not start in front in your heat race.

Oswald and I were debating this on the Brad Sweet Post.  Agree that everybody signs in and has the same track and presumably same rule enforcement.  But, how many LOCAL truly "Outlaw quality" teams with same quality cars, engines, crew chiefs and drivers are at any given race, including Knoxville?  The point is most of the Outlaws will be at the front of the pack in qualifying and therefore at the front of the heat races with no passing if not inverted.  So yes, a midpack Outlaw car, like sadly at this moment, my dear friend McMahan may be sacrificed in a heat with fast locals, most Platinum Outlaws will be in the first two rows at the start of the heat races, and at a less competitive track will all be in the first rows.  That is how the rule favors Outlaws pocket books over the course of the season, but provides us with less exciting racing.

The point is, a local that qualified a few hundredths or even a tenth slower, may stay in front of an Outlaw in an inverted start heat race for 10 laps, but he will rarely pass that same Outlaw.  

I could be wrong, but I think the inversion rule that we want is less about penalizing the Outlaws, and morer about providing more passing and closer racing up front.

+1

Yes, but youre able to have that format because the field is 20-22 cars and maybe 4-5 are "outlaw fast". Why penalize a team consistently qualifying a tenth or 2 better than everyone else?

With all due respect, your point was that the format was slanted in their favor, not that the format provides bad racing. 

So I guess it was better when the guy who timed 16th was magically inverted to the front of his heat and then the dash wins without passing a car all night? Because that happened quite a bit a few years ago. At least the guys starting upfront now earned it through TT's. The heat races weren't any better with the 4 car inverts because it was still a couple very fast cars starting in row 1 that didn't even earn it. The bigger problem is the cars being locked down and hammer down in the tacky heat race track conditions. That makes it real hard to pass. The WOO formats have been argued forever and there's no easy fix. When you have 30 plus locked down cars within a 1/2 second of each other, you might see a good one or you might get a runaway and have to look behind the leader to see some good racing.   

A

Keep in mind that we aren't talking the entire WoO roster here. We're talking about the highest funded 3-4 teams. Everybody knows who those teams are. Those highest dollar teams are going to have the edge qualifying regardless of pill draw, because of the eqiupment and motor advantages. They have the adjustment edge when it comes to track conditions. The better local teams from Knoxville, PA  and other areas of the country can compete right along with the other 9-10 Outlaw teams rather well. The other problem that isn't going to go away is front row dominance. When non WoO teams win, that's generally where they start, too. They simply don't start there often enough. The WoO as an organization have that all figured out. Like in a large field where the qualifying is split. Anybody really think that benefits local teams? Think about it. 

It's a perk they get for running the series. The way it is set up right know you better have your game on when it's time to qualify. If you think about it the locals should have a advantage from running there every week. Yes I am talking about the posse, or the weekly knoxville guys. But these guys come in and make most of the locals just shake there heads and say, WOW. 

The point of my original post was not about he who thinks has the biggest budget. It was when the outlaws come to town they usually can beat the locals. That was proven in the 3 geographic area of my original post. If in fact your arguing that he who has the biggest wallet is the one who qualifies the quickest and then wins. I definitely beg to differ 

lets talk California first,   locals , with huge  money, . How many cars and drivers did Roth have in California this past spring 3 or 4 drivers fabulous equipment and big budget. Rico abreau endless funds correct and home tracks. Who dominated there, THE OUTLAWSThink gravel pretty much got the majority of the wins. Tulare Rico quick timed started on pole of heat finished 21st huge budget, , gravel qualified 10th, didn't start in front row of heat race and wins the Main along with sweet and Stewart , big money Tim kaeding qualified 6th big budget California native  raced with Roth for years finished main 10,  logan Shuhart we know not much of a budget probably smallest on tour qualified 4th finished 6th in the A. 

My intentions is not to go tit for tat. To say the big budget  outlaw teams are beating the locals is irrelevant . Big budget locals aren't getting the job done, that's my point... not the format either. It was clearly shown in Tulare. If the big budget outlaw teams are the ones winning all the races and their are more than 3 top budget team, why hasn't Paul M and destiny Won, Rick has spent serious endless money new equipment engines and clausons crew chief.  Saldana huge budget Roth, stenhouse and wood brothers, new equipment Roth engines and Tyler swank one of the top notch crew chiefs in my opion  hasn't. Gotten a win yet. Johnson priority aviation, with marshalls backing probably one of the wealthiest tour teams how many wins does he have this year, and quick times? private jets first class flights for Johnson beautiful bus style motor homes  if you want to argue he who has biggest budget gets the wins On the tour?

Sadiesue and Oswald  we will look at your theory, and I pretty much think when you show up to race an outlaw show the same rules apply to locals and outlaws. So their is no slanted format you are speaking of.

lets take a look at Plymouth Indiana race. Here are the "BIG. BUDGET TEAMS " who qualified the best! Since it's in the Outlaws favor. Let's take a look at the top 3 top qualifiers since it's in their favor to win for the outlaws drivers. 1 and 2 non outlaws 3 outlaw big budget yes where did this so call slanted format finish these guys below I will list qualifiers with your so called advantage and let's see who finishes on the podium

Qualifying: 1. 2X-Parker Price-Miller, 11.079; 2. 99-Brady Bacon, 11.132; 3. 4-Paul McMahan, 11.155; 4. 87-Aaron Reutzel, 11.2; 5. 7S-Jason Sides, 11.217; 6. 15-Donny Schatz, 11.302; 7. 49-Brad Sweet, 11.325; 8. 19-Brent Marks, 11.325; 9. 9X-Paul Nienhiser, 11.347; 10. 5-David Gravel, 11.348; 11. 4K-Kody Kinser, 11.373; 12. 2-Shane Stewart, 11.403; 13. W20-Greg Wilson, 11.413; 14. 93-Sheldon Haudenschild, 11.468; 15. 41-Jason Johnson, 11.478; 16. 17B-Bill Balog, 11.483; 17. 23C-Tyler Courtney, 11.516; 18. 1S-Logan Schuchart, 11.538; 19. 3G-Carson Macedo, 11.547; 20. 17-Joey Saldana, 11.552; 21. 9-Daryn Pittman, 11.578; 22. 11K-Kraig Kinser, 11.632; 23. 20N-Hunter Schuerenberg, 11.641; 24. 4S-Danny Smith, 11.688; 25. 1A-Jacob Allen, 11.806; 26. 49D-Shawn Dancer, 11.859; 27. 13-Clyde Knipp, 11.985; 28. 7J-Joe Swanson, 12.108; 29. 51B-Joe B. Miller 12.119

And here is the results to a main

Feature (35 Laps) : 1. 5-David Gravel [7][$10,000]; 2. 7S-Jason Sides [1][$5,500]; 3. 87-Aaron Reutzel [3][$3,200]; 4. 15-Donny Schatz [2][$2,800]; 5. 49-Brad Sweet [10][$2,500]; 6. 19-Brent Marks [4][$2,300]; 7. 93-Sheldon Haudenschild [14][$2,200]; 8. 9-Daryn Pittman [12][$2,100]; 9. 2-Shane Stewart [5][$2,050]; 10. W20-Greg Wilson [20][$2,000]; 11. 17-Joey Saldana [17][$1,500]; 12. 3G-Carson Macedo [16][$1,200]; 13. 99-Brady Bacon [8][$1,100]; 14. 11K-Kraig Kinser [19][$1,050]; 15. 2X-Parker Price-Miller [6][$1,000]; 16. 4K-Kody Kinser [11][$900]; 17. 17B-Bill Balog [13][$800]; 18. 41-Jason Johnson [18][$800]; 19. 23C-Tyler Courtney [23][$800]; 20. 49D-Shawn Dancer [22][$800]; 21. 4-Paul McMahan [9][$800]; 22. 4S-Danny Smith [21][$800]; 23. 20N-Hunter Schuerenberg [24][$800]; 24. 1S-Logan Schuchart [15][$800]; Lap Leaders: Jason Sides 1-9, 16-33; Donny Schatz 10-15; David Gravel 34-35; KSE Hard Charger Award: W20-Greg Wilson[+10]

Gravel qualified 10th started 7th and won , Joey Saldana big budget outlaw starts 17th and powered up to 11, ode hard charger Greg Wilson, Brady bacon non outlaw 2nd quickest  finishes 13th. If it were rigged for just the Outlaw why would these guys qualify so well and not just win. Ooh it's the budget! Cuz we know that's what it is

My point was the best racing took place when the 8 cars in the dash were inverted with the fastest in back. Proving the format that starts the fastest cars in front leads to less racing & passing. Therefore proving the format for the heats favors the fastest qualifiers, most often the WoO regulars. If Schatz can go from 8th to second in a dash why can't he go from 4th to 2nd in a heat?

The outlaws are usually the fastest cars at the track, the format favors the fastest cars by starting them on the front row of the heats in clean air. Therefore the format is slanted in favor of the WoO regulars. 

You are correct on that. They did do a great job. I was just trying to more or less cover the areas where topics start showing up on the forums with trash talk

 I was exspecting  more from brownie and the madsens at kville they have talent, hometown track and nice budgets as well it seemed to be off nights for the locals tmac and the Dude too