Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Currently building up a new car for 2017 and the one thing I have realized is trying to meet the current weight rules costs a lot of money. Buying lightweight bolts, titanium everything, lightweight rearends, etc as most of the lightweight parts come at a 50-100% increase in cost per part. It got me thinking how much money could be saved if the 410 or 360 weight rules were upped to 1500 or 1600 pounds? What do you think? Would increasing the weight rule be a way to save teams money? Just a thought.

Most teams it sure would.  The high dollar teams will still buy lightweight parts and put weight where they want it possibly creating another performance advantage.  But make the weight rules high enough and you wouldn't need all that titanium and carbon fiber.  You'd still want to have the least rotating weight you could just for horsepower.  But that could be negated as well with a simple no titanium rule.  I'd say increase the weight rules and add no titanium and no carbon fiber.  I'm sure some would find other ways to get around it but if the limit is high enough it wouldn't make near as much difference.  

It would be interesting to see a complete list of lightweight parts that go into building a car and what they cost.  Just a bolt kit is in the neighborhood of $1000 or more depending on how fancy you go.  Then add stops, rotors, drive shaft, rear end parts, pedals, king pins, snouts, wheel center bolts, beadlock bolts, mud covers, and TI and carbon fiber on motors, and whatever else I'm forgetting.  Those parts cost a lot more than double what regular steel, aluminum and fiberglas does.  The number is several thousand dollars before you're finished as you well know.  And the racing would be no different without all that stuff.  In fact you might see some guys all the sudden start finishing worse and others finishing better.  Lol.    

What are you on about? cars already have to bolt on weight now. Imagine having to bolt on 100 pounds or so of weight. Would be very unsafe 

The question is what is the cost of building a car that you say you already have to bolt on 100 pounds? Could you save $500-$1000 in building that car if you built it to the weight limit? Perhaps you buy steel rotors vs titanium, etc. Of course there is the variable of driver weight which plays into the cars overall weight. I'm just noticing the expense to buy all these lightweight components to make the current weight rules.

You could make the weight deal a lot bettor if the driver was out of the car. I would guess at Knoxville there is 80 lbs difference in driver weights.

And another thing to keep in mind is these suppliers aren't going to just take it in the shorts cuz people aren't buying titanium anymore. They are going to increase the cost of steel parts to make more money on them. They recognize that if the race teams will pay X amount for lightweight parts, they have the money to pay to steel parts. I don't know there would be alot of savings, just cost shifting. 

You are absolutely spot on! Anything that takes this sport in the direction of reducing costs is a good thing. The only thing (and I'm not the expert) is to make sure that any changes in parts, hardware etc........doesnt create an increase in any failures or reduce safety. Being a builder I'm sure you know where that line should get drawn. As it stands today, those with the most "weight" in their wallets, owners and drivers, control the sport. I'm sure they don't want to see the changes you refer to! But.....I do think they are beginning to feel the money crunch, also. 

I think the owners and builders would recognize when they are getting screwed. Plus, less expensive parts and materials would most likely lead to more competition which could reduce costs even further. 

Can those drivers find a treadmill 

Are you saying cars built with steel components instead of TI are having to bolt weight on?  What does their driver weigh?  And why would bolting weight on be unsafe, provided of course it was bolted on correctly?

The 410 should add 25 lbs to min. weight.  Over years things like containment seats have added to total wight, plus restraints.  It is very hard for a 180  lb driver to make min. weight.  You would be surprised on how little weight a $1,ooo bolt kit takes off of a car.  Maybe 3 lbs.  It is all the Ti parts together that make a difference, but it still is not enough.  They macine  to lighten the alum, blocks, heads and intakes.  Sometimes to much and they crack.  They nees to do something but big brother (WOO ) probably will not.

   I'm not sure I can agree with your take on price competition and free market economics. As long as there is more than one supplier, you're going to have price competition. Think about it.  If those suppliers could simply raise the price on steel parts and get away with it, why don't they simply raise the price on the lightweight parts today and make more money?

I've seen crashes where drivers got their feet and legs banged up because parts or another car came through the floor pan or side metal. Putting some weight there would amount to an increase in safety.

there are teams (and I believe Shatz is one of them) that are heavier than the rest of the field by quite a margin (75# or more).  When the track slicks off, the weight is actually an advantage and they can drive through the field instead of skating around, wheras the reduction in weight is only an advantage during time trials.

And for the original poster, you can choose to save the $$$ or spend $$$ on lightweight parts, it's your choice, the weight rule is a MINIMUM, there is no maximum to what your car can weigh....

+1. I've seen the 15 go across the scales at 1550

dale blaney wins a lot of races. 

  Its easier to accelerate less weight than more on the same contact patches. I thought only stockcar guys added weight for the slick.

Should Weight Limit be Increased? Yes. For safety.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

If you are referring to Donny Schatz personal weight you haven't seen him lately .  pretty sure he's in better shape than you.

I sell nuts and bolts and have a few racers come in and buy stuff. I don't sell titanium bolts or aluminum so the most common item is fine thread grade 8 bolts for motor mounts and seats. I know 305 and low budget 360 teams that buy ti bolts. I have a hobby stock hood at with some carbon fiber on it, they gave it to me because I sponsored them. I'm not sure that a lot of guys can help themselves from buying more expensive stuff just because it is"better". I've asked a couple of guys how much it really saves in weight and the answer is not much. Why? Because racecar.