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Topic: Late Pass Gives Brian Brown Win #31 at Knoxville! Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
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Bill W
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May 14, 2016 at 11:55:07 PM
Joined: 11/23/2004
Posts: 5142
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http://www.knoxvilleraceway.com/Article/1980/late-pass-gives-brian-brown-win-31-at-knoxville


If this post isn't results, stories or something c
constructive, it isn't me! 
@BillWMedia
www.OpenWheel101.com


sadiesue
May 15, 2016 at 06:39:56 AM
Joined: 08/09/2005
Posts: 311
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Posted By: Bill W on May 14 2016 at 11:55:07 PM

http://www.knoxvilleraceway.com/Article/1980/late-pass-gives-brian-brown-win-31-at-knoxville




The last caution was brian running third ?How come he started second on the restart?



TWSprunk
May 15, 2016 at 09:18:11 AM
Joined: 12/02/2004
Posts: 190
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Posted By: sadiesue on May 15 2016 at 06:39:56 AM


The last caution was brian running third ?How come he started second on the restart?



It's in Bill's write-up.




darbo42
May 15, 2016 at 09:21:28 AM
Joined: 12/04/2004
Posts: 932
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Posted By: sadiesue on May 15 2016 at 06:39:56 AM


The last caution was brian running third ?How come he started second on the restart?



Exactly!  We were all questioning that at the time.  He had barely passed the car for 2nd and they threw the yellow.  He should have restarted in 3rd, the last completed lap under green.  I have heard different explanations and none of them satisfy me.  I know this will raise up all the haters and trolls but what is right is right.  I hope they haven't found someone else to favor like they have Lasoski.  Maybe we can have a mature discussion on this and get a reasonable explanation why it happened.  I have also tried to find out why, the week before, Walraven came in the pits, they threw a yellow, and he came back out in the lead, where he proceeded to stall his car trying to pick up the pace and took out the top 4 cars.  Thanks. 


My wife told me if I went to one more Sprint Car race 
she would leave me.................I'm sure gonna miss 
that ol' gal. 

Jamie Klootwyk
May 15, 2016 at 10:14:20 AM
Joined: 09/14/2006
Posts: 487
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It's a pretty simple explanation.  At the completion of the previous lap Brown and Juhl were side by side.  Sure Brown didn't complete the pass until turn 1, but they were side by side down the entire front stretch. I was watching on Cushion and couldn't tell who was ahead at the line right before the caution.  You can rewind Cushion video so I did and it looked too close to call from that camara angle.

 

I think the confusion is that the announcers screwed it up the whole time under caution saying Brown was in 3rd and playing head games with Juhl, when he wasn't, he was trying to get into his position and Juhl wasn't backing up.  They also screwed up in the 360 feature when they kept saying Henderson was in third before a late race restart, when Martin was actually still in 3rd.

 

Anyway, reading Bill W's write up, it clearly states Brown and Juhl were in dead heat at the line and the tie breaker per Knoxville rules goes to the person who ran that lap the fastest.  In this case Brown since he had been in 3rd and ran down Juhl.  Seems fair to me since this logic would reward the faster or passing car.

 

The explanation seems like a very clear and logical one to me. I'm curious what explanations are causing conspiracy theories to pop up.

 

Let me also add, I was routing for Tatnell to win.  Would have been great to see him and the orange 55 in victory lane.  It was the final caution that cost him the race, not the Knoxville race officials.

 

The Walraven explantion is also very simple.  It was a RED, not a yellow.  You can go into the work area on a red and keep your position as long as the crew doesn't work on the car.  I think the definition is you can't put a wrench or tool on the car.  Now I wasn't in the pits, so I don't know if they did or did not put a wrench on the car.  But if they didn't, he would get his spot back, which at the last completed lap was 1st.  

 

 



OutlawDan
May 15, 2016 at 10:14:29 AM
Joined: 06/09/2005
Posts: 106
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It says they were in a dead heat at the completion of lap 16 so they took the fastest lap of the two.  I'm OK with that.  Would like to see the video to see if it was a "tie" at the line though.




darbo42
May 15, 2016 at 10:45:50 AM
Joined: 12/04/2004
Posts: 932
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Appreciate the response.  I think Walraven headed into the pit as or before the red was flown and no one else came in under the red.  It was a quick red and everyone else remained on the track and pushed off when the signal was given.  Normally they stop there they are and only head into the pits when a long red is declared and their crew can all go to their cars when I signal is given.  I would question that no  one worked on the car and that he pulled in stopped, no one touched the car, and he pulled back out in position.  I am starting to accept the explanation on Brown's deal but still having a little difficulty with it.  Like you, I was really pulling for Brooke.  It's been a  long time for him.  I have no problem with Brian.  Have always like the kid.  I agree, I would like to see the video of the last lap.  If that is all true, I can accept that he deserved the third place spot.  Kudos to him for always going full charge.  That little bit gave him the victory.  


My wife told me if I went to one more Sprint Car race 
she would leave me.................I'm sure gonna miss 
that ol' gal. 

Bill W
MyWebsite
May 15, 2016 at 01:05:47 PM
Joined: 11/23/2004
Posts: 5142
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Posted By: darbo42 on May 15 2016 at 10:45:50 AM

Appreciate the response.  I think Walraven headed into the pit as or before the red was flown and no one else came in under the red.  It was a quick red and everyone else remained on the track and pushed off when the signal was given.  Normally they stop there they are and only head into the pits when a long red is declared and their crew can all go to their cars when I signal is given.  I would question that no  one worked on the car and that he pulled in stopped, no one touched the car, and he pulled back out in position.  I am starting to accept the explanation on Brown's deal but still having a little difficulty with it.  Like you, I was really pulling for Brooke.  It's been a  long time for him.  I have no problem with Brian.  Have always like the kid.  I agree, I would like to see the video of the last lap.  If that is all true, I can accept that he deserved the third place spot.  Kudos to him for always going full charge.  That little bit gave him the victory.  



You can watch the video all you want and you will get that opportunity when it's posted, but the transponders don't lie when they are in a dead heat to the thousandths of a second...first time I've seen this, and it proves that you never know what you'll see at the racetrack...there was some confusion also, because the scoreboard is linked to the system, which is not programmed for the tiebreaker, so Juhl was shown in second on the scoreboard for a while...

It was a good run for Juhl, good to see him improving every night he's at Knoxville...


If this post isn't results, stories or something c
constructive, it isn't me! 
@BillWMedia
www.OpenWheel101.com

Bill W
MyWebsite
May 15, 2016 at 01:08:47 PM
Joined: 11/23/2004
Posts: 5142
Reply

p.s. I would prefer rock, paper, scissors out of the side of the car...


If this post isn't results, stories or something c
constructive, it isn't me! 
@BillWMedia
www.OpenWheel101.com


kooks
May 15, 2016 at 01:45:46 PM
Joined: 02/27/2008
Posts: 702
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Reply to:
Posted By: Bill W on May 15 2016 at 01:05:47 PM

You can watch the video all you want and you will get that opportunity when it's posted, but the transponders don't lie when they are in a dead heat to the thousandths of a second...first time I've seen this, and it proves that you never know what you'll see at the racetrack...there was some confusion also, because the scoreboard is linked to the system, which is not programmed for the tiebreaker, so Juhl was shown in second on the scoreboard for a while...

It was a good run for Juhl, good to see him improving every night he's at Knoxville...



Is anyone else impressed that Knoxville Raceway had a tie breaker for such a situation?

 

I mean, what are the odds of two cars passing the line at the same time, to one one thousandth of a second scored electronically, on a lap that it matters?

 

 

 

 



egras
May 15, 2016 at 07:48:40 PM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 3913
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Reply to:
Posted By: Jamie Klootwyk on May 15 2016 at 10:14:20 AM

It's a pretty simple explanation.  At the completion of the previous lap Brown and Juhl were side by side.  Sure Brown didn't complete the pass until turn 1, but they were side by side down the entire front stretch. I was watching on Cushion and couldn't tell who was ahead at the line right before the caution.  You can rewind Cushion video so I did and it looked too close to call from that camara angle.

 

I think the confusion is that the announcers screwed it up the whole time under caution saying Brown was in 3rd and playing head games with Juhl, when he wasn't, he was trying to get into his position and Juhl wasn't backing up.  They also screwed up in the 360 feature when they kept saying Henderson was in third before a late race restart, when Martin was actually still in 3rd.

 

Anyway, reading Bill W's write up, it clearly states Brown and Juhl were in dead heat at the line and the tie breaker per Knoxville rules goes to the person who ran that lap the fastest.  In this case Brown since he had been in 3rd and ran down Juhl.  Seems fair to me since this logic would reward the faster or passing car.

 

The explanation seems like a very clear and logical one to me. I'm curious what explanations are causing conspiracy theories to pop up.

 

Let me also add, I was routing for Tatnell to win.  Would have been great to see him and the orange 55 in victory lane.  It was the final caution that cost him the race, not the Knoxville race officials.

 

The Walraven explantion is also very simple.  It was a RED, not a yellow.  You can go into the work area on a red and keep your position as long as the crew doesn't work on the car.  I think the definition is you can't put a wrench or tool on the car.  Now I wasn't in the pits, so I don't know if they did or did not put a wrench on the car.  But if they didn't, he would get his spot back, which at the last completed lap was 1st.  

 

 



Nice explanation. 

 

Maybe we need the Warren Commission to come in and make sure no one else was involved.  Holy crap people get paranoid! 

 

I haven't yet heard the weekly World of Outlaws conspiracy.  Who got screwed out of a win this weekend?  



sadiesue
May 16, 2016 at 09:47:13 AM
Joined: 08/09/2005
Posts: 311
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Reply to:
Posted By: egras on May 15 2016 at 07:48:40 PM

Nice explanation. 

 

Maybe we need the Warren Commission to come in and make sure no one else was involved.  Holy crap people get paranoid! 

 

I haven't yet heard the weekly World of Outlaws conspiracy.  Who got screwed out of a win this weekend?  



I did not see the artical I just asked what happened thats all gee wiz.




Oppermanfan
May 16, 2016 at 01:08:16 PM
Joined: 08/06/2008
Posts: 439
Reply

Maeschen and AMac finished .001 second apart in their heat race with AMac beating him. That cost Maeshcen his time spot back and caused him to start 19th. While racing in the back, destroyed his racecar. He was a lot faster in TT than anyone else, so that .001 cost him starting in the first couple rows and a possible W. So .001 difference may not happen often, it evidently happend twice last weekend.



thirteen
May 16, 2016 at 03:20:54 PM
Joined: 12/05/2008
Posts: 131
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Reply to:
Posted By: Oppermanfan on May 16 2016 at 01:08:16 PM

Maeschen and AMac finished .001 second apart in their heat race with AMac beating him. That cost Maeshcen his time spot back and caused him to start 19th. While racing in the back, destroyed his racecar. He was a lot faster in TT than anyone else, so that .001 cost him starting in the first couple rows and a possible W. So .001 difference may not happen often, it evidently happend twice last weekend.



Maeschen has always been a good qualifier.  It's the actual racing part he struggles with, which is why he couldn't transfer out of his heat. Unless he starts on the front row of the A main, he typically doesn't fair well.  He's like the polar opposite of Dobmeier and Kaeding. Dobs and TK are great in traffic but can't ever seem to lay down a qualifying lap - so they always start around 12th-18th in the A main, then move forward - usually passing Maeschen in the process since he typically has a better starting spot than them.  TK's effort on Sat up to 4th was pretty impressive - but when you start that deep in the field you run out of laps to contend for the win. Oh well, each has their own strengths and weaknesses I guess....



WFOB_0
May 16, 2016 at 05:29:33 PM
Joined: 12/01/2004
Posts: 483
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I'm glad there is a rule in place but feel the rule is backwards. 

For example, what if this was the case on the last lap of the race and Juhl led the whole way and Brown tied him at the line and Brown got the win even though he never technically led any part of the race. Scary prescidence being put down. 

BIG J


"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity."


oswald
May 16, 2016 at 06:54:17 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1982
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Reply to:
Posted By: WFOB_0 on May 16 2016 at 05:29:33 PM

I'm glad there is a rule in place but feel the rule is backwards. 

For example, what if this was the case on the last lap of the race and Juhl led the whole way and Brown tied him at the line and Brown got the win even though he never technically led any part of the race. Scary prescidence being put down. 

BIG J



I believe the rule is if there is a tie at the checkers the car on the outside is declared the winner and the car on the inside is scored as second.



rob ristesund
May 16, 2016 at 08:15:09 PM
Joined: 07/21/2005
Posts: 170
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Posted By: oswald on May 16 2016 at 06:54:17 PM

I believe the rule is if there is a tie at the checkers the car on the outside is declared the winner and the car on the inside is scored as second.



Why is it the car on the outside rather than the one on the inside?



oswald
May 16, 2016 at 10:54:58 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1982
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Posted By: rob ristesund on May 16 2016 at 08:15:09 PM

Why is it the car on the outside rather than the one on the inside?



Don't know. I either read that in the rules on their website or on a board posted on the ambulance stand where the drivers meetings are conducted. I can only think the reason may be the outside car traveled a longer distance to get to the finish line at the exact same moment as the inside car. But that's just my guess.





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